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Old 10-18-2018, 08:29 PM   #21
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

Even with modern weapons, I still don't see a _need_ for "armor-piercing" to "make the game work".

I can certainly understand a _desire_ for it though. IF I were to make some "armor-piercing" rules, I would _not_ take the "this weapon ignores X points of armor" route.

I would give certain weapons +1 or +2 damage against certain armors. I might also give certain weapons (perhaps the same weapons previously mentioned) a -1 or -2 damage against certain other armors (or no armor).

I'm not a historian of historical weapons but here are some examples for illustration:

Weapon...Damage...Damage Modifiers
Rapier...1d...+1 chainmail/-1 platemail
Saber...2d-2...-1 chainmail
Shortsword...2d-1...-1 chainmail
Broadsword...2d...-1 chainmail

Hatchet...1d...+1 platemail/-1 chainmail
Hammer...1d+1...+1 chainmail
Mace...2d-1...+1 chainmail
Small Ax...1d+2...+1 platemail
Morningstar...2d+1...+2 chainmail/+1 chainmail
Great Hammer...2d+2...+2 chainmail

Longbow...1d+2...+1 chainmail/+1 platemail
(I wouldn't give Heavy Crossbow and Arquebus special bonuses but I would reduce their damages)
Heavy Crossbow...2d+2
Arquebus...3d-1

Trident...1d...+2 chainmail
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:06 PM   #22
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

Quote:
Originally Posted by platimus View Post
... IF I were to make some "armor-piercing" rules, I would _not_ take the "this weapon ignores X points of armor" route.

I would give certain weapons +1 or +2 damage against certain armors. ...
As long as you don't give them more damage than the armor actually stops against other weapons... what would be the difference, other than wording?
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:13 PM   #23
platimus
 
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Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
As long as you don't give them more damage than the armor actually stops against other weapons... what would be the difference, other than wording?
The answers to your questions are in the examples I provided.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:45 PM   #24
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

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Originally Posted by platimus View Post
The answers to your questions are in the examples I provided.
I don't see how. I have just one question, exemplified by:

What is the difference between saying a weapon does 1 more damage against chainmail, as opposed to saying it ignores one point of chainmail?

Oh, never mind, there is no difference, as I thought, about what I was asking about. You mean that you would break it down by weapon/armor combinations, rather than giving a bonus against all armor. Ok.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:54 PM   #25
platimus
 
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Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I don't see how. I have just one question, exemplified by:

What is the difference between saying a weapon does 1 more damage against chainmail, as opposed to saying it ignores one point of chainmail?

Oh, never mind, there is no difference, as I thought, about what I was asking about. You mean that you would break it down by weapon/armor combinations, rather than giving a bonus against all armor. Ok.
I didn't realize you were comparing to the phrase in bold. In this thread, I've only seen the suggestion of "some weapons ignore X points of armor". I'm glad you see the difference now.

However, saying "+1 damage against chainmail" and "ignore one point of chainmail" are functionally the same but "+1 damage against chainmail" is more easily grasped (by me, at least) and requires less mental calculation in the midst of game-play.
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Last edited by platimus; 10-19-2018 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:15 PM   #26
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
What is the difference between saying a weapon does 1 more damage against chainmail, as opposed to saying it ignores one point of chainmail?
It reduces the time needed to wear away the armor.
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:23 PM   #27
platimus
 
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Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
It reduces the time needed to wear away the armor.
Ha! I should read my new signature again!

"+1 damage against defenders wearing chainmail"

And, no, I don't mean the Marvel Defenders! LOL
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:03 AM   #28
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

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Originally Posted by platimus View Post
Ha! I should read my new signature again!

"+1 damage against defenders wearing chainmail"

And, no, I don't mean the Marvel Defenders! LOL
Oh, so you mean only against people taking the Defend option. ;-)
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:50 PM   #29
platimus
 
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Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Oh, so you mean only against people taking the Defend option. ;-)
Crap! LOL

"+1 damage against foes wearing chainmail"
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:40 PM   #30
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Silver Weapons, Weird Things That Aren't Enchantments, Armor Piercing

Seems to me it'd really depend on what one thinks the odds are. And I would love to have some better statistics. But it seems to me the odds are probably higher than 2%, or else we wouldn't be remarking at the surprising stories of the cases where someone gets shot and keeps fighting. We'd be expecting to have to shoot someone many times, and snipers would be trying to shoot people three times before checking to see if they're still going or not.

I don't mean to say you're suggesting something wrong, though. I think it's an interesting direction to go and I do agree that penetration rather than just higher damage is a good starting point.

But 1) I've played and considered various attempts to do TFT guns as 1d to 2d for pistols and was not very happy with the predictability of being able to shrug off the first hit or two.

and 2) if I were going to rework things rather than use the TFT numbers, I'd probably go farther, one way or another, with more hit location and/or a wound-based system as opposed to just adding up damage and dropping when the total hits ST.
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