02-12-2018, 05:20 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Feb 2018
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A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
Hello, everyone.
I've never played GURPS, before. My RPG experience is limited to all of the versions of D&D from Mentzer Basic, to 3.5, Pathfinder, and 5th Edition; but not 4E D&D. I've seen GURPS mentioned on the forums at Paizo and Enworld. Some say that it is more complicated than Pathfinder. So, my first question is, is GURPS really more complicated than Pathfinder? I've read GURPS Light, but haven't totally understood it, but I think the 3d6 system appears to be somewhat more balanced than Pathfinder and other forms of D&D. Is it more balanced? Also, Pathfinder has a lot of class options, however one of the drawbacks seems to be the class system, itself. I have players who take 3 or more classes just to realize a concept. Am I correct in thinking that GURPS makes it easier to realize a concept because it's not class and level based? Also, I've read parts of the threads here about converting things like Rappan Athuk to GURPS and it sounds like those in the know find it somewhat easy to do. How long would it take to gain enough system mastery with GURPS to convert the Swords & Wizardry version of Rappan Athuk to GURPS? I'm primarily interested in Dungeon Fantasy, but I can see my players eventually liking the idea of exploring other genres, which seems to be a strong point with GURPS. Having watched Pathfinder evolve into Starfinder and the subtle rules changes that were involved, I think I am in favor of a more stable system for all genres. GURPS seems like it will fit that bill. If I start with the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Boxed Set will it provide the guidance I'd need to get used to the GURPS system, character generation, combat, exploration, etc... and prepare me to move to other genres using GURPS? That said, there are a lot of supplements to GURPS. Am I right in guessing that these forums would be a great place to ask for guidance on which supplements are recommended for a given genre? Thanks in advance. Hrothgar |
02-12-2018, 06:03 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
GURPS is best described as a toolkit for a system rather than a system. Herein lies the problem because there are dozens of supplements, which leads a bewildering array of choices. It's extremely helpful to get guidance for which supplements to use for given settings.
Based on your post, I recommend the DF set as a jumping off point because its self contained. It's also better at doing D&D than D&D is, in my opinion, specifically the system is better at combat and more interesting. A recurring theme that makes GURPS much easier to use for newer places and GMs is the notion of character templates. These are effectively a sort of quasi-'class'. So the template will be for a certain number of points, for a type of character (or NPC) and will specify certain pre-bought characteristics and guide optional points buys. To answer other questions: - GURPS is both more and less complicated than Pathfinder. It's a cleaner, more intuitive and more consistent system. The sheer number of possible game options is much broader, though there is a lot less 'class based' information. - 'more balanced' - possibly for a given value of 'balanced'. Being a points buy system you would think equal points = equal utility, but this depends vastly upon the setting and what restrictions a GM puts into place. - no classes, yes it's generally easier to realise a concept in GURPS than other systems. - 'system mastery' is a slippery term, it's going to depend on how quickly you come to grips with systems, how much time you spend doing so and how much effort you want to put into conversion. - these forums are an excellent resource for GURPS questions. The above answers hint at issues new GURPS users will encounter, which is why I recommend getting the DF box set. It will remove the problems of having to make rules choices. Again, these forums are an excellent resource for any GURPS-based questions you have. Last edited by mr beer; 02-12-2018 at 06:08 PM. |
02-12-2018, 06:04 PM | #3 | ||||||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
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So in GURPS and Dungeon Fantasy the chance of success doesn't increase linearly with each +1 to skill, it increases very slowly at the extreme low and high levels, and increases quickly for middle levels. In PFRPG, conversely each +1 is exactly +5%. Quote:
It does give the optional rule to allow characters to made off template, and buy everything à la carte. Quote:
If you are willing to make quick and dirty decisions like "every 20 gp in the original is one gold coin" then pretty much instantly, I think. Quote:
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Last edited by sir_pudding; 02-12-2018 at 06:08 PM. Reason: I thought this was in DFRPG, oops. |
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02-12-2018, 06:06 PM | #4 | |||||
Aluminated
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
I'll point out that there's a subtle distinction here. The Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game is a stand-alone product which is 99% compatible with the full GURPS system. It contains a lot less than the full system, but it is much more focused on stuff that's relevant to dungeon delving. So, then, there are going to be different answers to some of these questions for GURPS and for the DFRPG.
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Building a character in the DFRPG is somewhat easier than in pure GURPS because it's template-driven. That is, you've got a series of ready-made menus. There are still some choices to make (say, pick 3 of these 4 skills and spend 20 points on anything in this category), but being far more focused, it's far easier to get up and running. Quote:
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Sweet merciful Jebus, yes.
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I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs. Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit! |
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02-12-2018, 06:18 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
With players that are new to GURPS, I tend to make them give me a detailed outline of what they imagine the character is good at and a detailed background. I will make the character for them (it takes me half an hour at worst in most games) and then spend a half hour explaining to them the capabilities of their character. I usually give them five sessions to tweak the character to fit their specifications or to replace the character with one that they have designed (in which the original character becomes just another NPC).
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02-12-2018, 06:29 PM | #6 | |||||
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
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Where GURPS is more complicated that Pathfinder is really in two places. First, character creation. This is legitimately more complex, I'd say, because GURPS aims to give you many more choices and flexibility when building characters. This has the necessary consequence of making someone, either the players or the GM, make more decisions. The second area is in the optional details and rules. GURPS has quite a lot of these, and if a group allows all of them, or even a lot, the complexity can increase quite a bit. My advice for new GURPS players and GMs would be, don't do everything the book says you can do. Keep it simple at first, until you've learned the rules, and even then, don't introduce new rules unless a) the players are interested in exploring that particular area of the game, and b) the added complexity will actually help. Quote:
This comes with a couple of caveats, though. First, the GM has to be on their toes and reactive to the players' needs and desires, as expressed in their character builds. Unlike Pathfinder/D&D, where there's a solid "campaign default activity" built into the game (crawl through dungeons, fight monsters, take their stuff, become heroes, bask in glory), GURPS, being generic, has no such default activity, meaning the GM has to take care to establish what the campaign is about to start, and then ensure that the players' various abilities and skills are being used. If you're running a game set in Feudal Japan, and someone takes the Artisan (Flower Arranging) skill, it's up to the GM to notice that and put some opportunities to impress people with artistically-arranged flowers into the game. The second caveat is that points are not a balancing mechanism between PCs and NPCs, whether humans or monsters. A 500-point character can be taken down by a 25-point one in combat, if the 500-point one has all their points put into wealth, social connections, and being super-attractive, while the 25-point one put all those points into being good at swords. And, conversely, five 500-point characters can find themselves stymied by one 25-point one, if they've sunk all their abilities into combat and the 25-point NPC has social traits that let them put combat off the table. Quote:
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02-12-2018, 06:32 PM | #7 | |||||
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
It can be. There are a lot of options in GURPS, and you can drag in as much detail and complexity as you like. It doesn't _have_ to be complex,though. Starting with Light is a good idea. You'll get the basics of the system, and can add other things if and when they suit your needs.
Not everybody wants to track fatigue expenditure in combat while having modifiers for a defensive grip halfway up the sword while calculating the effects on magic of three hundred sympathetic magical doodads. Other people find that one or the other or something else just the feel they need for the game they want to run. Someone's already said that GURPS is a toolkit, and the hardest thing to learn is not memorizing all the rules, but learning which ones to choose to use to suit your intended purpose. Not everything in all the books even fits together sensibly (the 30s pulp of the Solar Patrol doesn't conceptually mesh with near-future hard-science transhumanism, even if the rules work together flawlessly), so there's no question of having to use it all at once. Quote:
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You can also buy the GURPS Basic Set, which is really all you need to run most games. There's a whole series of PDFs in the "Dungeon Fantasy" line that got a little editing and selection to become the DFRPG. So that would be another route to get there. Quote:
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02-12-2018, 06:57 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Northeast Kansas
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
All of your questions have been answered by now, So I'll just hop up and down on the question I'm most excited about. I think DFRPG is the PERFECT way to jump into the broader GURPS system. It leaves out all the optional rules that get folks twisted up in knots. And leaves you with a worked example of a GURPS game. It also comes with a prepackaged adventure that will get you acquainted with the fundamentals in play. Moving from DFRPG to the Basic Set means that you already know the core assumptions of the system which, hopefully, will innoculate you from the assumption that all the rules need using all the time.
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02-12-2018, 07:00 PM | #9 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
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02-12-2018, 07:52 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie
Thanks, everyone.
I think I'm going to give GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game a go. But, I'm also going to have questions... later on... about other genres... |
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