02-10-2012, 10:15 AM | #1 | |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2008
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[SE] Status pretensions
Hi,
On page 19 of Social Engineering, it says: Quote:
I'm assuming that the skill to sustain the pretensions refers to Acting. So you try passing for a Duke and you fail your Acting roll often enough you get a negative Rep. So far so good. But then it goes on to say that if you don't try to pass for someone of higher rank but just spend a lot of money you have an OPH and people will react negatively to your "pretensions". This part troubles me. If you're not trying to pass, then there is no pretension and it would seem to imply that simply free-spending on its own automatically imposes a significant social Disad on a character (in-play, so no points gained). The example doesn't really make clear which part of his behaviour rates as social climbing, or why a rich merchant purchasing a house is an OPH. (Also, this conflicts a bit with reality wherein we see lavish spending actually ASSIST social climbing rather than penalizing it.) |
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02-10-2012, 10:23 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [SE]Status pretensions
Quote:
On the other hand, one might suggest that in places where spending 'above your station' works, you actually are able to increase your Status that way. So by spending above your Status rather than buying more Status you're indicating that it's not working.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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02-10-2012, 11:52 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia, US
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Re: [SE] Status pretensions
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Thus, Jean Richard uses his wealth and all that means to buy a position on the Privy Council. Fair enough. The nobility have been doing that for generations and it's a pretty well-accepted method of social advancement (though depending on how it was handled the individual might gain a reputation for being somewhat uncouth). The OPH, on the other hand (and again as I see it), results out of conspicuous consumption--spending money with the deliberate intent of impressing his "peers." If, on the other hand, Jean Richard were purchasing a permanent residence in Paris (because he lived elsewhere)? Well, that would be situation-normal and to be expected if coupled with the appropriate rank. Jean Richard, on the other hand, is part of the middle class... In some ways it mirrors "Old Money" and "New Money." At least that's my take on it. And, of course, there are societies were conspicuous consumption can be a form of social combat (c.f. potlach in the NW Pacific), used to establish status (Halstatt chiefdoms and the use of positive reciprocal trade), etc. Last edited by Kage2020; 02-10-2012 at 11:56 AM. |
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02-10-2012, 12:04 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: [SE] Status pretensions
That is exactly what it's intended to mirror. And it's only suitable for societies that have old wealth with status anxiety: Rome when patricians encountered vulgar social climbing knights, France with the noblesse d'epée and the noblesse du robe, Victorian aristocrats sneering at "people who buy their silver." Either slow circulation of elites or very fast circulation of elites will not produce this effect, and the mechanic should not be applied there.
Bill Stoddard |
02-10-2012, 12:07 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: [SE] Status pretensions
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Bill Stoddard |
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02-10-2012, 12:11 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: [SE] Status pretensions
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Bill Stoddard |
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02-10-2012, 12:13 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia, US
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Re: [SE] Status pretensions
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02-10-2012, 12:23 PM | #8 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: [SE] Status pretensions
Quote:
Quote:
With skills like architecture, connoisseur, savoir fair, and perhaps a skilled valet you could fake being high status, or you could actually buy up your status. But without that knowledge, you'll just look like an idiot who is ruining the neighbourhood with your ugly house. |
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02-10-2012, 12:31 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia, US
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Re: [SE] Status pretensions
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02-10-2012, 12:59 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: [SE] Status pretensions
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social engineering |
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