[Social Engineering] Resisting / Misleading / etc. enemy Empathy? (Hard to Read?)

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

One of the long-term NPCs for a campaign I hope to eventually start has a weird trait: a semi-controllable ability to mess with people who have Empathy and try to do a 'scan'.

Now, Empathy is an ability which is not resistible, and isn't affected by Mind Shields (since it neither a mental attack, nor a paranormal influence, nor a spell from Communication & Empathy College, nor does it have the Telepathic limitation/power modifier). Besides, the character is not resistant to outright psionics and drugs.

The ability is explained as having a superficially familiar, but internally moderately alien mind, combined with some extensive experience with people trying to get into one's head (through Psychology, Empathy, Body Language, Brainwashing etc.).

I considered Obscure (Non-paranormal mental influences and scans), but it seems like an extremely weird solution. Also, creating false impressions seems to fall (by strict RAW) under some subset of Illusion. And all that puts the ability into borderline supernatural (or exotic, at least) territory, while the intent is borderline cinematic at most.

I also looked at Avatar, even though the NPC is a non-telepath, but once again it is borderline supernatural.

Opinions?
Thanks in advance!

[Refplace]

How about Digital Mind? It is probably too absolute for what you want but could work for a mind so alien it cant be read by conventional means.
Or Mind Block and just waive the Trained By a master prerequisite.
It really depends on the affect you want.
Jamming would be static, misleading would be Illusion or Obscure and messing with of course could be anything. Aura attack, especially Affliction with nausea or something.
Oh and does this work against people who use telepathy on him? If so then I would probably buy Mind Shield with Cosmic +50% to include Empathy.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Refplace

How about Digital Mind?

Considered it, and still considering, even though the name is wrong. :)

Originally Posted by Refplace

Or Mind Block and just waive the Trained By a master prerequisite.
It really depends on the affect you want.

Mind Block seems very close in concept, but only works on paranormal stuff / helps in a quick contest against mind reading. Empathy is neither.

Originally Posted by Refplace

Jamming would be static, misleading would be Illusion or Obscure and messing with of course could be anything. Aura attack, especially Affliction with nausea or something.

Now I see that I shouldn't've used these words. :)

Originally Posted by Refplace

Oh and does this work against people who use telepathy on him? If so then I would probably buy Mind Shield with Cosmic +50% to include Empathy.

No it does not. Telepathy would just reveal the 'internals' of a somewhat alien (though still more-or-less human as we know it) mind; in concept, Empathy fails specifically because the emotions / feel is superficially similar, but different on a deeper level, resulting in incorrect impressions (e.g. detecting sense of loyalty in place of a whimsical attempt to win a bet about being able to follow a set of rules). Deliberately modifying the deeper level (NPC also has Body Control and Interrogation with a SERE-equivalent optional speciality) allows the NPC to deliberately mislead the empath into some direction.

[Not another shrubbery]

Obscure vs. Empathy seems a bit strange to me, but if your proposal is active, it might be the best fit. If it is strictly passive, what about that Hard to Read idea that was floated a few years ago?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Obscure vs. Empathy seems a bit strange to me, but if your proposal is active, it might be the best fit. If it is strictly passive, what about that Hard to Read idea that was floated a few years ago?

Yeah, Hard to Read definitely, specifically because Easy To Read affects Body Language. It would fit perfectly if it existed, as long as it would be possible to enhance with a controllable 'misleading' enhancement.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Greetings, all!


The ability is explained as having a superficially familiar, but internally moderately alien mind, combined with some extensive experience with people trying to get into one's head (through Psychology, Empathy, Body Language, Brainwashing etc.).
!

But Empathy isn't superficial. The first impression you get from it is extremely fundamental. The bonus to skills can be defeated just by high enough acting skills, but successful Empath will always give an accurate feel for the kind of person someone actually is. Of course in the case of alien minds, that may not convert into an accurate feel for the kind of things they'll do. "Caring and compassionate" may produce "will kill you and eat your brain to preserve your memories and pass them down to their offspring". "Playful and frivolous" may convert into "will take 70 years out of their immortal lifespan to be a devoted and self-sacrificing servant because that was the bet".

Really though what an Empath should get when looking at a mind they can't comprehend is "That guy is weird and confusing."

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

But Empathy isn't superficial. The first impression you get from it is extremely fundamental.

Fundamental/superficial is relative. Empathy is not as deep as Mind Reading, and trying to use feelings from Empathy without the help of Mind Reading (or at the very least understanding the internals) of this NPC can easily cause wrong conclusions.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The bonus to skills can be defeated just by high enough acting skills, but successful Empath will always give an accurate feel for the kind of person someone actually is. Of course in the case of alien minds, that may not convert into an accurate feel for the kind of things they'll do. "Caring and compassionate" may produce "will kill you and eat your brain to preserve your memories and pass them down to their offspring". "Playful and frivolous" may convert into "will take 70 years out of their immortal lifespan to be a devoted and self-sacrificing servant because that was the bet".

Yeah, that sort of wrong conclusions.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Really though what an Empath should get when looking at a mind they can't comprehend is "That guy is weird and confusing."

Assuming the detectable-by-Empathy part of the mind is noticeably different at the moment of the feeling, yes. But not if the top layer is familiar, but results from deeper-level (not noticeable, at least normally) interactions. E.g.:

• The Empath detects emotions consistent with Pacifism:Reluctant Killer. In truth, the NPC's reluctance is caused by training not to waste a burst when a better-skilled ally has a better chance to perform a one-shot-kill.
• The Empath detects arousal, but doesn't know that its cause is that the NPC wants to appear 'genuinely' interested in the mark for the Influence Attempt to work (and thus made some changes to brain chemistry on the fly).
• The Empath detects unflinching loyalty, strong enough to risk near-certain death. The Empath doesn't know that this is only consistent with the NPC's current modus operandi, and will change instantly if the NPC's agenda will no longer be compatible with the Empath's.
• At noon, the Empath gets the feel that the NPC is a workaholic with no personal life etc. 12 hours later, the Empath meets the same NPC in a night club (in a Disguise), and gets the feel of someone with a no commitments and no intent to be serious. The Empath has no clue the two characters are the same person. Neither emotional feel shows any signs of Split Personality either.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Greetings, all!

One of the long-term NPCs for a campaign I hope to eventually start has a weird trait: a semi-controllable ability to mess with people who have Empathy and try to do a 'scan'.

Now, Empathy is an ability which is not resistible, and isn't affected by Mind Shields

Wrong on that one. Supers makes it explicitly clear that it is, and I am pretty sure it is referenced elsewhere too that this is the case.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by B9anders

Wrong on that one. Supers makes it explicitly clear that it is, and I am pretty sure it is referenced elsewhere too that this is the case.

Where? After a quick skim, Supers talks about resisting Telepathic stuff, but not regular Empathy.
Supers mostly lists Empathy in templates, but also as a candidate for the Hypersensory enhancement for CSI-like cinematic hyper-awareness. That's all I found.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh;1287101[/quote

Assuming the detectable-by-Empathy part of the mind is noticeably different at the moment of the feeling, yes. But not if the top layer is familiar,

Empathy doesn't pick up the top layer. It picks up the bottom layer, the one that's below thoughts, words, memories and images. Mind reading just picks up what you happen to be thinking at that moment. A Callous method actor can fool a mind reader just by thinking fake compassionate thoughts. Empaths though don't pick up the thoughts or emotions that a person is feeling right at that moment. They pick up who that person fundamentally is all the time.