Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2011, 07:02 AM   #31
gjc8
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
You just agreed with me, dude. :)
I have argued that some titles are linked with jobs, in GURPS terms. Others are just courtesy rank. Some are military , religious, or administrative rank- and also linked to a job. Some are just part of status.
I agree with your point, I just disagree about which titles are which. Warden of the XXXX are just (Courtesy) Rank, while managing a Great House is a job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic
How much he is paid as Master of Coin is never stated. The job may or may not come with a formal salary, but it probably has lucrative perks. The brothels are an independent source of money.
I strongly suspect that Hand of the King could come with similar perks, if the person who held the title were inclined to take them. But Honesty prevents Ned from exploiting his position for personal gain, even though King's Landing is corrupt enough that it's expected.
gjc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 07:15 AM   #32
combatmedic
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjc8 View Post
I agree with your point, I just disagree about which titles are which. Warden of the XXXX are just (Courtesy) Rank, while managing a Great House is a job.


I strongly suspect that Hand of the King could come with similar perks, if the person who held the title were inclined to take them. But Honesty prevents Ned from exploiting his position for personal gain, even though King's Landing is corrupt enough that it's expected.


Warden may be just courtesy rank, yeah, We really don't know much about what it really entails.


Keep in mind that in my view of how this stuff works, there's absolutely no reason why one can't have one title as part of Status or Rank, another title just a courtesy rank, great personal Wealth, another source of Independent Income, and the job (you don't pay character points for this) of running a Great House.

Note that jobs in GURPS are often tied to wealth and status. They may also come with legal enforcment powers.
A job isn't something that you pay CPs for, but you may have to pay CPs to qualify for it (wealth, status, skills, special advantages that come with the job, etc).

Ned definitely could have exploited the heck out of his new job, had he been a less honorable man.

Last edited by combatmedic; 06-21-2011 at 07:20 AM.
combatmedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 07:35 AM   #33
gjc8
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
Warden may be just courtesy rank, yeah, We really don't know much about what it really entails.
Doesn't Ned say that it's an empty honor during peacetime? In the context of deciding whether Robert Arryn should inherit the title from Jon, even though he's still a child.

And during civil war, armies line up according to money, personal loyalty, or political convenience (as demonstrated later in the series), regardless of who the Wardens are. So it would only matter in the event of invasion by an outside force, which hasn't happened since kingdoms were unified by the Targaryens.
gjc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 07:47 AM   #34
combatmedic
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjc8 View Post
Doesn't Ned say that it's an empty honor during peacetime? In the context of deciding whether Robert Arryn should inherit the title from Jon, even though he's still a child.

And during civil war, armies line up according to money, personal loyalty, or political convenience (as demonstrated later in the series), regardless of who the Wardens are. So it would only matter in the event of invasion by an outside force, which hasn't happened since kingdoms were unified by the Targaryens.
That may be so. I'd have to look further into it. Perhaps it was a real job at one time, like Hand of the King, and is now mostly just an honorary title?

Hand is definitely a job. Master of Coin, Master of Ships, etc are jobs. These jobs carry titles that may be reflected by ranks, status, and legal enforcment powers. Job rolls would certainly be required (using politics, administration, etc).

Last edited by combatmedic; 06-21-2011 at 07:51 AM.
combatmedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 08:22 AM   #35
SonofJohn
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

My Take on aGoT status


8 King of Westeros
7 Great Khal, Ruler of major Citystate/Freecity, Hand of the King(disputable)
6 Warden of <insert here Direction> (Starks, Lannisters, Aeryn and Tyrell),
Major Khal, Ruler of a minor citystate
5 High Septon, Lord of a major house(Tully, Greyjoy, Martell), Khal
4 Lords of major Bannerhouse( Frey, Boltons), minor Khal, Member of the
small Concil (if not otherwise higher in Status)
3 Lords of an avarage Bannerhouse ( Umber, Karstark, Clegane),
great maester
2 Landed Knights (Mormont, Blackwater, Baelish)
1 Hedge Knights, Maester, Guild Masters, Septons
0 Smallfolk, Men of the Knight Watch
-1 Unfree/poor Smallfolk, Clans of the Moon
-2 Whores,
-3 Slaves
-4 Outlaws, Wildlings

Members of Great Houses have the Lordsstatus -1

In my Oppinion any Stark gets the Lannisters as enemy after Ned gives Cersei a ultimatum, you could argue that the Starks are actually at war with the Lannisters who simply protect there interests ... but they are Enemys as soon as Cat thinks Tyrion tried to kill Bran.
SonofJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 10:31 AM   #36
gjc8
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofJohn View Post
8 King of Westeros
7 Great Khal, Ruler of major Citystate/Freecity, Hand of the King(disputable)
6 Warden of <insert here Direction> (Starks, Lannisters, Aeryn and Tyrell),
Major Khal, Ruler of a minor citystate
5 High Septon, Lord of a major house(Tully, Greyjoy, Martell), Khal
4 Lords of major Bannerhouse( Frey, Boltons), minor Khal, Member of the
small Concil (if not otherwise higher in Status)
3 Lords of an avarage Bannerhouse ( Umber, Karstark, Clegane),
great maester
2 Landed Knights (Mormont, Blackwater, Baelish)
1 Hedge Knights, Maester, Guild Masters, Septons
0 Smallfolk, Men of the Knight Watch
-1 Unfree/poor Smallfolk, Clans of the Moon
-2 Whores,
-3 Slaves
-4 Outlaws, Wildlings
8 is probably right for the king.

Pre-unification, the kings of 7 kingdoms should would be status 7. How you treat the Status of disputed claimants is unclear, but if Stannis gets Status 8, then Robb, Balon Grey, and Euron Greyjoy would be Status 7 while claiming their regional thrones. Arguably, Mance Rayder should also go here.

I'd go ahead and put the heads of the Great Houses at Status 6. They are, after all, the heirs of kings.

Status 5 would be important nobles that are still below the Great Houses, like Frey and Redwyne.

Status 4 would be "average" nobles, who are not especially powerful, but have enough land, etc, to be powerful.

Status 3 is landed knights and the least wealthy and powerful noblemen (Gregor Clegane falls here, Petyr Baelish would if he only had his lands).

Status 2 is landless knights, including both hedge knights and those directly in service to a noble. Note, though, that you have to be able to afford the cost of living to claim most of the benefits of Status, so many hedge knights will effectively be somewhat lower. Guilds aren't as important in Westeros as some fantasy settings, but guild masters should probably still qualify for this, rather than 1.

On the low end, Statuses below -2 don't exist in 4e; slaves and outlaws would have Social Stigma. Wildlings in particular would have a status based on their standing in wildling society (so Mance Rayder is high) but Social Stigma from the perspective of most of Westerosi society. There don't seem to be many serfs or slaves in Westeros, so most of the poor would be status -1 (including prostitutes, though they may have Social Stigma, too).

Various positions, like the membership on the Small Council, would grant Rank, which gives a certain degree of free Status, rather than a specific status. Hand of the King is probably Rank 8, Small Council membership 7. So Littlefinger has "natural" Status 3, +2 from his Rank as a member of the small council. If the Hand is status 4+ (they usually are), the +3 from that Rank would push them up to Status 7. If the hand starts lower, they may not: Aerys' final Hand was probably Status 2 (as a master alchemist), so would be Status 5. The Warden positions grant Rank or Courtesy Rank 6.
gjc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 01:04 PM   #37
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
You just agreed with me, dude. :)
I have argued that some titles are linked with jobs, in GURPS terms. Others are just courtesy rank. Some are military , religious, or administrative rank- and also linked to a job. Some are just part of status.
Just because something is a Job does not mean it doesn't come with Status or Rank. In fact, some jobs specifically do come with Status/Rank, such as 'King' or 'General' or even 'Beat Cop', and you need to pay for that stuff.

Thus, this whole argument that Warden of the North, Master of Coin, etc are jobs doesn't matter one bit. Jobs aren't advantages in GURPS, and any advantages a job gives you you need to pay for.
Langy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 01:05 PM   #38
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
Warden may be just courtesy rank, yeah, We really don't know much about what it really entails.


Keep in mind that in my view of how this stuff works, there's absolutely no reason why one can't have one title as part of Status or Rank, another title just a courtesy rank, great personal Wealth, another source of Independent Income, and the job (you don't pay character points for this) of running a Great House.

Note that jobs in GURPS are often tied to wealth and status. They may also come with legal enforcment powers.
A job isn't something that you pay CPs for, but you may have to pay CPs to qualify for it (wealth, status, skills, special advantages that come with the job, etc)..
This is completely wrong. You need to pay for any advantages that a GURPS Job gives you. If you didn't, then police wouldn't have Legal Enforcement Powers, military officers wouldn't have Rank, etc.
Langy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 03:10 PM   #39
SonofJohn
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

The Tyrells were never Kings and the Riverlands were never a kingdom of its own... so there would maybe another distinction ...

I have given Houses like Bolton or Frey some more status, because they rivaling the great houses in power and could become greater house if the respective greater house would some how fall. So i think there is some distinction inbetween greater houses and between Bannerhouses. So there are some of avarage status, above avarage status and below avarage status minor houses ...

Iam not sure if administrative Rank fits cause every noble has some deal of administrative purpose, its basicly the whole point in feudalism.
SonofJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:33 PM   #40
Ze'Manel Cunha
 
Ze'Manel Cunha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Default Re: Game of Thrones [Req.Social Advantages]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofJohn View Post
So there are some of avarage status, above avarage status and below avarage status minor houses ...
More likely an issue of wealth really, with the higher status coming from the wealth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofJohn View Post
Iam not sure if administrative Rank fits cause every noble has some deal of administrative purpose, its basicly the whole point in feudalism.
Administrative rank does fit in well to represent this type of aristocracy, and I'm sure combatmedic will jump in soon to explain to us how there's no such thing as feudalism outside of modern revisionist propaganda. *grin*
Ze'Manel Cunha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advantages, social engineering

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.