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Old 06-21-2011, 06:57 AM   #21
combatmedic
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Here's the most important bit you seem to have missed, Icelander.

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Noble titles may be reflected by rank and status, yes. They may also be part of a job.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:08 AM   #22
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If you own GURPS Swashbucklers, Age of Napoleon, or Middle Ages 1, please take a look at the job tables in those books.

Page 16 of Swashbucklers lists Ruling Nobility as a wealthy job.
Page 107 of AoN lists Titled Nobility as a wealthy job.
Office holder is listed as a comfortable job.
Page 63 of Middle Ages lists 'Lord' as a job (with Politics as the controlling skill- poor old Ned).

Some of these jobs are linked with status.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:26 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
Are you saying that Hand of the King is not a government job with specific powers and responsibilities?
Not at all. I'm saying that Eddard Stark was not defined by that job and that job had no impact on what Wealth Level to assign him.

The wealth level of Eddard Stark at the beginning of the series, when he is not Hand of the King, is the same as after he accepts that position.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:35 AM   #24
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What do you guys think of this:


Status in Westeros:
  • 0 branded outlaws, indentured servants, ‘prentice boys, and riff raff of the streets
  • 1 most ordinary smallfolk
  • 2 well-to-do & influential smallfolk, hedge knights, low ranking septons and maesters
  • 3 petty gentry, knights with significant wealth and power, young nobles without titles, mid ranking septons and maesters
  • 4 bannermen of a great house, senior septons and maesters,
  • 5 members of a great house, very high ranking septons and maesters
  • 6 lords of the great houses, high officers of the King (maybe)
  • 7 The King of the Seven Kingdoms
It's just a draft.

Last edited by combatmedic; 06-21-2011 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:36 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Not at all. I'm saying that Eddard Stark was not defined by that job and that job had no impact on what Wealth Level to assign him.

The wealth level of Eddard Stark at the beginning of the series, when he is not Hand of the King, is the same as after he accepts that position.
Well, maybe not 'no impact', but I'd go for 'no significant impact.' The pay was all perks, apartments, etc so far as we know.

Last edited by combatmedic; 06-21-2011 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:45 AM   #26
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I'm pretty sure it would be easy to run a game set in Westeros (or elsewhere in the same world) with only the Basic Set and maybe Powers.


The tricky part is what we are doing in this thread- working out how to stat all the social stuff.

As always, YMMV.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:45 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by SonofJohn View Post
Warhero +2 rebell lords

Man of Honor +2

Lord Hedgehog -1 (he is so pricky he should choose the hedgehog as his coat of arms)
It's not really clear that he's especially well respected by the lords who fought for Robert versus those who fought for Aerys.

You could probably combine the other two into simply "Reputation: Honorable but Rigid +1".

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Enemies(Lannisters)
For Ned, the Lannisters never act against him specifically; they simply act to protect their interests, and he ends up standing in the way. They're opponents, not enemies.

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Enemies( minor Houses from Roberts Rebellion)
When do these people act against him? No. You could make a case for the Greyjoys, since they clearly hold a grudge, but there's no evidence anyone else is out to get him.

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Allies( King Robert)
What does Robert ever do to HELP Ned? He'd be better off if Robert never showed up on his doorstep.

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Allies( Tully)
Catelyn, yes. Everybody, no (although they may be Allies of Catelyn). They don't do anything to help him.

General rule: just because he's on reasonably good terms or bad terms with a house doesn't mean that the house rises to the level of an Ally or an Enemy. Unless someone is actively trying to help or harm you, they're not an ally or any enemy.

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Depends(children)
Robb, at least, is probably an Ally rather than a Dependant. He's competent on his own, and he doesn't really get into trouble (at least while Ned is alive). Jon Snow is probably neither.

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Originally Posted by SonofJohn View Post
Robb Stark

Status 6
Status 5 while Ned is still alive; arguably status 7 as King in the North.

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Originally Posted by SonofJohn View Post
Young Wolf +2 (skilled commander)
I'd just say that he has a Talent, and once he show it off he gets a reaction bonus from that.

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Man of Honor +2
He doesn't have as notable a history of honor as Ned; this should probably be +1, or at least limited to a smaller group.

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Allies(Tullys)
Just because they're allies in war doesn't mean they're Allies. He has a better case than Ned, but I'm still not sure.

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Enemies(Lannisters)
Again, a better case than Ned, if only because the war has already started. But do you take the main antagonist of the campaign as an enemy?

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Originally Posted by combatmedic
It seems that many nobles have at least modest levels of independent income. They live as rentiers and gentlemen farmers. They can hire bailiffs, reeves, and so on to manage properties and just collect the income. They don't have to do that work themselves.
As has been discussed elsewhere on the forums, ruling a domain can be a job if it requires management. For most of the Game of Thrones, there's SOMEONE managing things in Winterfell, even if it isn't Ned. Even when Robb goes to war, he brings his bannermen with him and spends time and effort managing them. He also suffers consequences for insufficient management. I'm not sure Lord of Winterfell isn't a job, even if it can be done be someone who isn't the titular Lord (as Robb does for most of Game of Thrones).

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Originally Posted by Icelander
Yes, but these benefits would seem to be almost irrelevant to Eddard Stark, who started the series with more than enough wealth for his purposes and did not seem to gain any wealth from his appointment as the King's Hand. He gained power and influence, not wealth.
Because the wealth available from that position is small relative to what he already had (and perhaps his Honesty prevents him from exploiting his position as much as would be expected). Varys and Littlefinger do well enough for themselves, even though they have no lands or incomes.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:50 AM   #28
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Because the wealth available from that position is small relative to what he already had (and perhaps his Honesty prevents him from exploiting his position as much as would be expected). Varys and Littlefinger do well enough for themselves, even though they have no lands or incomes.


Littlefinger does have land (just not much) and income. How much he is paid as Master of Coin is never stated. The job may or may not come with a formal salary, but it probably has lucrative perks. The brothels are an independent source of money.

I can't imagine that no one pays Varys. He's the spymaster for a large empire. We just don't know what he's paid. It never comes up.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:53 AM   #29
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As has been discussed elsewhere on the forums, ruling a domain can be a job if it requires management. For most of the Game of Thrones, there's SOMEONE managing things in Winterfell, even if it isn't Ned. Even when Robb goes to war, he brings his bannermen with him and spends time and effort managing them. He also suffers consequences for insufficient management. I'm not sure Lord of Winterfell isn't a job, even if it can be done be someone who isn't the titular Lord (as Robb does for most of Game of Thrones).


You just agreed with me, dude. :)
I have argued that some titles are linked with jobs, in GURPS terms. Others are just courtesy rank. Some are military , religious, or administrative rank- and also linked to a job. Some are just part of status.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:53 AM   #30
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Richard the third, who was king in the historical era inspiring the books was listed in who is who II. He has Very Wealthy and Status 7, Tudor supporter as enemies and a -3 Reputation as ursurper, traitor and murder and a duty king.
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