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Old 11-12-2011, 10:01 PM   #1
shkspr1048
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Default On Influence, as written in Social Engineering

"In general, reaction roll modifiers also affect Influence rolls Ė but not necessarily other rolls vs. Influence skills. However, if an advantage modifies reaction rolls and a specified list of skills, donít transfer the reaction modifiers to Influence rolls. Listed Influence skills get the skill modifier; Influence skills that arenít listed are unmodified.

Example: The faerie princess Plurabelle gains +2 from her Voice on reactions by anyone who hears her speak; it also raises her Sex Appeal from 12 to 14 and her Singing from 15 to 17. But her reaction roll bonus doesnít give her an extra +2 on Influence rolls based on Sex Appeal; nor does she get a bonus to Intimidation."

The Example leaves me feeling lost. If Voice give her +2 to Sex Appeal, shouldn't that affect the Influence rolls for it? And if that's not the case, can someone explain the benefit of having a higher level of a given skill if it doesn't affect rolls? Or am I missing something?
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Old 11-12-2011, 11:15 PM   #2
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: On Influence, as written in Social Engineering

I think the intent of the rule could be more clearly stated as follows: "If an advantage gives a bonus to reaction rolls only, add the bonus to reaction rolls to influence rolls. However, if an advantage gives a bonus both to reaction rolls and to certain skill rolls, don't add the bonus to reaction rolls to influence rolls. In this second case, just add the listed skill bonus, if applicable, to influence skills."

The first thing this is saying is that you never double-count bonuses from advantages like Voice. If Plurabelle's Sex Appeal is 12 without Voice, it's 14 with Voice. Even if she's using Sex Appeal as an influence skill, her effective skill before situational modifiers is 14, not 16. And, as stated in the quote you provide, Voice will never benefit Intimidation.
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Old 11-13-2011, 02:35 AM   #3
whswhs
 
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Default Re: On Influence, as written in Social Engineering

Quote:
Originally Posted by shkspr1048 View Post
"Example: The faerie princess Plurabelle gains +2 from her Voice on reactions by anyone who hears her speak; it also raises her Sex Appeal from 12 to 14 and her Singing from 15 to 17. But her reaction roll bonus doesnít give her an extra +2 on Influence rolls based on Sex Appeal; nor does she get a bonus to Intimidation."

The Example leaves me feeling lost. If Voice give her +2 to Sex Appeal, shouldn't that affect the Influence rolls for it? And if that's not the case, can someone explain the benefit of having a higher level of a given skill if it doesn't affect rolls? Or am I missing something?
You're not reading it closely. The phrasing "an extra +2 on Influence rolls based on Sex Appeal" is not accidental. She gets +2 to Influence rolls using Sex Appeal, because her Voice raises her Sex Appeal from 12 to 14. But she doesn't get both +2 to Influence rolls from her voice making her skill higher, and +2 to Influence rolls from her Voice adding to reaction rolls.

Bill Stoddard
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:12 PM   #4
President NotSure
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Default Re: On Influence, as written in Social Engineering

First off, I want to apologize for revamping this old thread - I had similar understanding issues concerning the question the thread started had asked,
and much got cleared up by using the serach function and stubling across this topic and others related to it. Yet one question remains:
What is the relation between the Charisma Advantage and the Sex Appeal Skill?
Intuitivly, I've always made a connection between the two, similar to the RAW connection of Charisma and, say, a skill like Public Speaking - a charismatic person should have an easier time using Sex Appeal due to his/her exceptional Charisma. What am I missing in terms of understanding the rules or common sense?

I thank you for your replies.
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:35 PM   #5
whswhs
 
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Default Re: On Influence, as written in Social Engineering

Quote:
Originally Posted by President NotSure View Post
First off, I want to apologize for revamping this old thread - I had similar understanding issues concerning the question the thread started had asked,
and much got cleared up by using the serach function and stubling across this topic and others related to it. Yet one question remains:
What is the relation between the Charisma Advantage and the Sex Appeal Skill?
Intuitivly, I've always made a connection between the two, similar to the RAW connection of Charisma and, say, a skill like Public Speaking - a charismatic person should have an easier time using Sex Appeal due to his/her exceptional Charisma. What am I missing in terms of understanding the rules or common sense?
Charisma does not actually raise the issues of double counting that arise with Voice. Charisma has two effects: (1) It gives +N to skill in Leadership, Public Speaking, and a couple of other things; (2) It gives +N to all reaction rolls, including Influence rolls. None of the Influence skills is among the skills listed in (1), so you never have an issue of double counting.

Intuitively, the best I can say is that: Charisma as such causes other people to react to you favorably, and thus they react favorably when you flirt with them, or negotiate with them, or impress them with your street savvy. This is not because you have any higher skill at these things, but because you're using the skill under favorable conditions, so you get more bang for the same skill. On the other hand, Charisma includes a sense for how to do the things covered by Public Speaking and Leadership, so it actually makes you more skilled at both of those.

You can only get a bonus to Sex Appeal if you're right there with the person. But you can get a bonus to Public Speaking for a speech over the radio, or to Leadership for sitting in your tent in the field with your troops making sure the unit is in good shape.

Bill Stoddard
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:26 AM   #6
swampthing
 
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Default Re: On Influence, as written in Social Engineering

Quote:
Originally Posted by President NotSure View Post
What is the relation between the Charisma Advantage and the Sex Appeal Skill?
Short version: Charisma gives +1 to all Influence rolls. Sex Appeal skill rolls are, generally speaking, Influence rolls.

You seem to be getting distracted by the list of specific skills (Fortune-Telling, Leadership, Panhandling, Public Speaking) affected by Charisma. But they are listed individually because they are not used for Influence rolls, which were already covered one semicolon ago. They are far from the only skill rolls Charisma applies to.

Last edited by swampthing; 01-22-2012 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:52 PM   #7
President NotSure
 
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Default Re: On Influence, as written in Social Engineering

Thank you guys for clearing that up for me - i kinda guessed that my confusion had its roots in being unclear about the RAW (which you rightly called "getting distracted by the list of specific skills") rather than in being unable to grasp the semantics of the word itself.

As somebody else has previously stated, this forum is easily the second best thing about GURPS - prolific writers and fantastical creatures alike finding time helping out the noobs. Now I look forward even more to our next session, with my femme fatale investigator getting "more bang out of a skill" backed up by a better understanding of the rules of the game.


Vobis gratias maximas ago.
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