Extra Basic Lift?

[FeiLin]

Is the only way to increase Basic Lift through ST and Lifting ST? I couln't find anything regarding this in the Basic Set.

I was looking at some monsters, and specifically quadrupeds and larger SM should be able to lift more than they can.

For SM I guess that this is reflected in cheaper ST, but it seems a bit on the low side. For quadrupeds, just having extra 2 legs should mean the ability to lift more than the biped equivalent, no?

Any thoughts?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by FeiLin

For quadrupeds, just having extra 2 legs should mean the ability to lift more than the biped equivalent, no?

Nope. Four legs doesn't help the spine bear more weight at all, and many quadrupeds in fact can't support as much on their backs because their spines are more flexible than a humans.

We use quadrupeds as pack animals because there's a shortage of trainable bipeds that aren't humans.

[AlexanderHowl]

If you want them to have extra lift, just give them Lifting ST. An SM+2 creature with No Fine Manipulators will only pay 6 CP for Lifting ST+5. For example, a large horse (SM+2; ST 22) would increase its lift by 50% by purchasing Lifting ST+5 for 6 CP.

I would suggest that it would be realistic to allow any creature to purchase up to 30% of their ST in Lifting ST or Striking ST (rounded down), just to account for differences in individuals and species. A large horse (SM+2; ST 22) could then realistically have Lifting ST+6 or Striking ST+6, though more than one or two levels of either would probably make them an exceptional specimen. Of course, they would not gain HP, but HP can already be purchased separately.

If you extended to rule to human PCs, then you can actually reflect reality more accurately than the current rules, as well as allowing more nuanced character concepts. While you could make a ST 20 boxer or weightlifter with HP 16 with the current rules, you would have a boxer who is also a record breaking weightlifter or a weightlifter who can punch out most professional boxers. It would be more realistic to just allow them to purchase ST 16 and allow the boxer to purchase Striking ST+4 and the weightlifter to purchase Lifting ST+4. The boxer is still good at lifting and the weightlifter still punches very hard, but they are not overlapping as much.

[FeiLin]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

An SM+2 creature with No Fine Manipulators will only pay 6 CP for Lifting ST+5

The rules explicitly state Lifting ST doesn't allow No Fine Manipulators. But otherwise, yeah, it sounds reasonable. I guess that is the best way of handling the issue. Just intuitively felt like there would be another way (from other systems, probably).

Out of curiosity, is there a disadvantage that makes Lifting ST lower? I couldn't find one (although it would just be a simple house rule for the current one).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by FeiLin

The rules explicitly state Lifting ST doesn't allow No Fine Manipulators. But otherwise, yeah, it sounds reasonable. I guess that is the best way of handling the issue. Just intuitively felt like there would be another way (from other systems, probably).

Out of curiosity, is there a disadvantage that makes Lifting ST lower? I couldn't find one (although it would just be a simple house rule for the current one).

Buy down ST and buy up HP and Striking ST.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by FeiLin

The rules explicitly state Lifting ST doesn't allow No Fine Manipulators. But otherwise, yeah, it sounds reasonable. I guess that is the best way of handling the issue. Just intuitively felt like there would be another way (from other systems, probably).

Out of curiosity, is there a disadvantage that makes Lifting ST lower? I couldn't find one (although it would just be a simple house rule for the current one).

It seems pretty intuitive to me.
Buy up or down ST for overall body mass and power and fine tune with Extra HP, Lifting ST or Striking ST.
We even have things like Constriction Attack for adjusting certain applications of strength.
And Invertebrate p. B140 lowers Lifting ST to 1/4 for some purposes.

[tbone]

Old GURPS™ had the Extra Encumbrance advantage that boosted the ST multipliers for encumbrance levels. It's not in 4e.

For modern GURPS, I'd just go with extra Lifting ST – or a lesser version that affects only encumbrance, not lifting, pushing, pulling, wrestling, etc. Call it Carrying ST. I'd charge 2 points/level (compared to 3 points/level for Lifting ST).

Whether it's realistic or not for any design, it's a fine way to boost a mighty beast of burden, load-bearing dwarf, etc.

(That said: If you like simple RAW, plain ol' Lifting ST does the job.)

[Flyndaran]

Point cost doesn't matter for NPCs like pack animals, so adjust numbers and features however you want. Though the advantage is pretty darn effective for the price. Unless you're really pinching points, that is.

[Toptomcat]

Payload is not exactly an 'increase in Basic Lift', but it is an increase in a creature's carrying capacity that doesn't increase any of the other things that Lifting ST does, like the ability to apply strength while grappling.

Alternatively, Applies Only to Basic Lift, Not While Grappling is probably at least a -20% Accessibility limitation on Lifting ST.