Should Ogre and G.E.V. be closed down?

andrewbeasley · 02-06-2021, 05:09 AM

Following on from this thread (Ogre Drop Off) do you:

Think the idea of separate games is no longer valid?
Would you buy into a combined game again?
Would you buy a 'conversion' set?
Do you think a combiner's-game would attract younger players more than the two?
Do you think this would attract older players more than the two?

Mack_JB · 02-06-2021, 10:08 AM

"Closed down" how? Do you mean the rules and units merely combined, which they were in the most recent releases (ODE and Battlefields), or do you mean something else?

The game exists, you can play Ogre, or G.E.V., or mix them both easily.

What exactly is a "conversion set" as you suggest?

Whether young or old player, the problem (as has been highlighted in past SJG discussions) is the whole 'cult of the new' where more and more game releases vie for the limited time of players to latch on to them.

In that regard, Ogre is doing pretty darn good. Of the 45 crowdfunding campaigns SJG has done, Ogre accounts for (or is included in) nine of them, and by dollars raised, Ogre products stand at #1, #5, #7, and #8 and nearly $1.5M raised. That's not bad for such an "antique" game!

andrewbeasley · 02-07-2021, 07:54 AM

Apologies - typed before engaging brain :-)

By closed down I mean brought to an end and not developed / sold any more in its current forms.

The conversion kit gives you the rules / terrain / figures to upgrade the current ODE box to the contents of the new combined one.

As for crowdfunding - I would love to know how much of that was new customer or old timers buying in for replacement / nostalgia reasons and I guess that figure is not publicly available.

Exploding Kittens got $8M, and Zombie side did similar over its three releases showing the market for new games is presently higher if you can 'grab the punters interest'.

Mack_JB · 02-07-2021, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewbeasley

By closed down I mean brought to an end and not developed / sold any more in its current forms.

The conversion kit gives you the rules / terrain / figures to upgrade the current ODE box to the contents of the new combined one.

Realistically, ODE is not sold anymore other than on the secondhand market, so it effectively is "closed down". That said, ODE wasn't just Ogre, it also included G.E.V. with large amounts of Shockwave, Reinforcements, and 2001 era Battlefields in the box.

The new 2019 Battlefields is just that conversion kit you ask for ... it adds everything else to ODE and has the latest revised ruleset available.

We're still in the golden age of Ogre, even if it does seem like the game isn't as sexy or popular as some other new games out there.

J. Durr · 02-07-2021, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mack_JB

We're still in the golden age of Ogre, even if it does seem like the game isn't as sexy or popular as some other new games out there.

I second this.

sparky00 · 02-08-2021, 03:23 AM

I'll third this.

Ogre & GEV are successful because they are fast & fun to play.

The game is easy to learn, the turn sequence is not burdensome, there is a large random component so outcomes can change. The ruleset is very light-weight for the flexibility it provides.

Its just fun.

That hasn't changed over the years, and I don't expect it to.

Misplaced Buckeye · 02-08-2021, 08:15 AM

Not quite certain how the Drop off thread lead to this. As stated I'd like to see the ODE evolve into a "Last War" where the emphasis isn't necessarily always on the Ogre units but all the other units so the game becomes less of a dice chucker tread blasting game and more tactical with some strategy. Not all battles of the Last War were fought with Ogres especially once the collapse hit and the Factory States arose. I do see the Ogre game and the GEV/Shockwave games as separate concepts. They just happen in the same time frames and with accessibly to the same units.

HeatDeath · 02-10-2021, 12:18 PM

There's absolutely no business reason to "close down" Ogre at this point in time. The 6e box is commercially viable at it's current MSRP, as long as SJG are careful not to over-order it and end up holding too much inventory for too long. And the crowd-funding campaigns consistently manage to justify their existences in terms of money raised and opportunity costs.

SJG are not losing money on Ogre, even if it isn't the kind of exponential-growth runaway monster the current FLGS distribution system has come to demand of new product. And as long as the business case remains at least minimally commercially viable to a group of approximately a thousand dedicated fans who will buy pretty much anything they put out, there's no reason not to continue the line.

TL;DR As I've said before, "If we keep buying it, they'll keep making it."

schoon · 02-16-2021, 04:54 PM

Yes, OGRE 6E is readily available, and I do not really see how shuffling the games apart/together would really have any influence on popularity.

What I think would help out is an OGRE release every once in a while to keep everyone's interest.

I'd love to see a more detailed history of the Last War, perhaps some background and scenarios on the non-PanO/Combine aspects.

02-06-2021, 10:08 AM	#2
Mack_JB Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: St. Louis, Missouri	Re: Should Ogre and G.E.V. be closed down? "Closed down" how? Do you mean the rules and units merely combined, which they were in the most recent releases (ODE and Battlefields), or do you mean something else? The game exists, you can play Ogre, or G.E.V., or mix them both easily. What exactly is a "conversion set" as you suggest? Whether young or old player, the problem (as has been highlighted in past SJG discussions) is the whole 'cult of the new' where more and more game releases vie for the limited time of players to latch on to them. In that regard, Ogre is doing pretty darn good. Of the 45 crowdfunding campaigns SJG has done, Ogre accounts for (or is included in) nine of them, and by dollars raised, Ogre products stand at #1, #5, #7, and #8 and nearly $1.5M raised. That's not bad for such an "antique" game!

02-07-2021, 07:54 AM	#3
andrewbeasley Join Date: Feb 2008	Re: Should Ogre and G.E.V. be closed down? Apologies - typed before engaging brain :-) By closed down I mean brought to an end and not developed / sold any more in its current forms. The conversion kit gives you the rules / terrain / figures to upgrade the current ODE box to the contents of the new combined one. As for crowdfunding - I would love to know how much of that was new customer or old timers buying in for replacement / nostalgia reasons and I guess that figure is not publicly available. Exploding Kittens got $8M, and Zombie side did similar over its three releases showing the market for new games is presently higher if you can 'grab the punters interest'.

02-08-2021, 03:23 AM	#6
sparky00 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Parma, OH	Re: Should Ogre and G.E.V. be closed down? I'll third this. Ogre & GEV are successful because they are fast & fun to play. The game is easy to learn, the turn sequence is not burdensome, there is a large random component so outcomes can change. The ruleset is very light-weight for the flexibility it provides. Its just fun. That hasn't changed over the years, and I don't expect it to.

02-16-2021, 04:54 PM	#9
schoon Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oakland, CA, USA	Re: Should Ogre and G.E.V. be closed down? Yes, OGRE 6E is readily available, and I do not really see how shuffling the games apart/together would really have any influence on popularity. What I think would help out is an OGRE release every once in a while to keep everyone's interest. I'd love to see a more detailed history of the Last War, perhaps some background and scenarios on the non-PanO/Combine aspects.

02-06-2021, 05:09 AM	#1
andrewbeasley Join Date: Feb 2008	Should Ogre and G.E.V. be closed down? Following on from this thread (Ogre Drop Off) do you: Think the idea of separate games is no longer valid? Would you buy into a combined game again? Would you buy a 'conversion' set? Do you think a combiner's-game would attract younger players more than the two? Do you think this would attract older players more than the two?

02-08-2021, 08:15 AM	#7
Misplaced Buckeye Join Date: May 2015	Re: Should Ogre and G.E.V. be closed down? Not quite certain how the Drop off thread lead to this. As stated I'd like to see the ODE evolve into a "Last War" where the emphasis isn't necessarily always on the Ogre units but all the other units so the game becomes less of a dice chucker tread blasting game and more tactical with some strategy. Not all battles of the Last War were fought with Ogres especially once the collapse hit and the Factory States arose. I do see the Ogre game and the GEV/Shockwave games as separate concepts. They just happen in the same time frames and with accessibly to the same units.

02-10-2021, 12:18 PM	#8
HeatDeath Join Date: May 2012	Re: Should Ogre and G.E.V. be closed down? There's absolutely no business reason to "close down" Ogre at this point in time. The 6e box is commercially viable at it's current MSRP, as long as SJG are careful not to over-order it and end up holding too much inventory for too long. And the crowd-funding campaigns consistently manage to justify their existences in terms of money raised and opportunity costs. SJG are not losing money on Ogre, even if it isn't the kind of exponential-growth runaway monster the current FLGS distribution system has come to demand of new product. And as long as the business case remains at least minimally commercially viable to a group of approximately a thousand dedicated fans who will buy pretty much anything they put out, there's no reason not to continue the line. TL;DR As I've said before, "If we keep buying it, they'll keep making it."