04-12-2018, 07:30 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: traveller
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Pre-human civilizations on Earth
The Silurian Hypothesis: Would it be possible to detect an industrial civilization in the geological record?
Despite referring specifically to the Dr. Who episode, this is a serious attempt to determine what the geological evidence of an industrial civilization like our own might look like from millions of years in the future. The short answer: very similar to multiple events in the current geological record, though it should be possible to devise tests that would make the distinction. From a gaming perspective, the events the paper lists are prime fodder for the origin of Out of Place Artifacts and Things Man Was Not Meant To Know. |
04-12-2018, 09:28 PM | #2 | |
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
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I think it all depends on a few things. Just how far back the pre-human civilization, how technologically advanced it was, how long it lasted, how big it was, in areal terms, and just where it was. A civilization that lasted a few thousand years in the Triassic, operated at around GURPS TL 4, and was limited on part of one continent might be almost invisible in the fossil record. A civilization at TL 7-8, that operated all over the planet, and lasted for tens or hundreds of thousands of years, in that same time period, might be quite noticeable. (Though whether we'd accurately interpret the oddities is another matter.)
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04-12-2018, 09:34 PM | #3 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
One problem is that not only that technological species would have to be unknown. All of its other high intelligence relatives would as well. For humans, all other primates would have to be missing from the fossil record.
There really aren't any non-mammalian animals on par with primates other than cephalopods. And I don't think it's possible for purely aquatic creatures to progress past middle stone age. Of course stone age soft bodied invertebrates could have evolved and disappeared from the oceans many times without leaving anything we would identify as proof.
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04-12-2018, 09:56 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
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04-12-2018, 10:10 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
Quote:
On the other hand, if you look at the ratio of brain mass to body surface area, the passeriformes (loosely, songbirds, though the category also includes corvids) are a match for most primates. And parrots seem pretty impressively smart.
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04-13-2018, 05:14 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
We might not recognize it -- anyone else see the discussion of the invisible gorilla effect on SETI.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/22...ark-matter.htm |
04-13-2018, 05:31 AM | #7 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
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Radical modification of the basic primate form is in human's recent past, and while we've found fossil evidence of such things, its fairly incomplete, fairly recent, and we had a good idea of what were looking for. So a basic form could quickly change to something suited for technology without leaving many intermediate fossils.
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04-13-2018, 06:12 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
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04-13-2018, 01:21 PM | #9 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
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It's not just a single species that would have to hide. It would have to be at least an entire order which is unlikely. Not technically impossible for the pre KT event, but exceedingly unlikely.
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Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check. Last edited by Flyndaran; 04-13-2018 at 01:35 PM. |
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04-14-2018, 01:26 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Earth, mostly
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Re: Pre-human civilizations on Earth
In one of Niven's Draco Tavern stories, an ancient chirpsithra (a species that operates interstellar passenger and trade liners that travel just under the speed of light, so even the youngest humans have met have been around for centuries) reminisces about the last time she came by Earth, some 780 million years previously, and the advanced civilization of anaerobic life forms dwelling in the young planet's shallow seas. Sadly, there was nothing the chirps could do to save the planet from the threat that came, so slowly and subtly - a green scum floating at the very edge of the land, that sucked in precious carbon dioxide and spewed forth toxic, highly damaging oxygen...
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