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Old 05-21-2012, 05:14 PM   #41
JLV
 
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

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Originally Posted by Buzzardo View Post
I still like my idea of a matrix full of options, wherein each column adds up to the same VP total. But I'm liking the idea of cards better, so I'll let my matrix idea go.

I'm intrigued by the various ideas for variably delaying reinforcements. How would delaying the reinforcements by some number of turns based on the VP value of the reinforcements impact the game? In other words, suppose you receive 30 VP worth of reinforcements, and the rule is to divide VP by 10 for the delay. So you get 30 VP worth of help in 3 turns. Workable or too much of a pain?
But why not both? A matrix of card decks -- would increase flexibility (and therefore replay value) and allow you to expand the matrix easily if future supplements added un-thought-of additional units....

You could even go more hog-wild -- achieving a certain victory condition "unlocks" additional columns on your matrix, thus enabling new reinforcements (think of it as the old Soviet paradigm of reinforcing success). Just some more random thoughts....
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

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You could even go more hog-wild -- achieving a certain victory condition "unlocks" additional columns on your matrix, thus enabling new reinforcements (think of it as the old Soviet paradigm of reinforcing success). Just some more random thoughts....
Now there's an idea. If it's the classic 2-up, 1-back attack formation, the reinforcements are the reserve waiting for the breakthrough. So take that bridge and here they come.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:21 PM   #43
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
I just took the first step towards a generic reinforcement deck, putting together a spreadsheet listing a large number of possible reinforcement groups for 6, 12, 18, 24, 36 and 48 VP. The list can be found here - I'd be interested in hearing what people think of the concept in general, as well as specific combinations (both those I listed, and any that I didn't that you think would make good additions).
Interesting list -- seems reasonable at a glance, but I need to think more.

Are you thinking that infantry would be provided on GEV-PCs? As part of a mixed reinforcement group, it seems appropriate. Maybe a pure infantry reinforcement could be on foot.

One way to balance the large reinforcement groups would be to have a delay before the next group. Thematically, assume there is a chokepoint behind the lines. Maybe you skip your next draw if you get a 36 or 48 VP reinforcement.

Unfortunately, I can't quite reconcile that with my earlier suggestion for dealing with a Mark III. (If a Mark III is drawn, the opponent gets an extra draw for their next reinforcement. Roughly, those bonus reinforcements weaken an offboard portion of the front, but a Mark III creates an immediate crisis.)
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:21 PM   #44
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

Hmm, regarding the "number of cards in a deck" question; wouldn't that actually be somewhat scenario dependent?

I'm thinking you could specify a number of VPs worth of reinforcements split by a number of arrivals within the scenario directions, that is:

"Player A begins with 250 VPs worth of units (no Ogres) and may receive 450 VPs worth of units (no more than one Ogre) split into five separate arrival groups."

Mind you, I'm anally extracting those numbers and arrival splits, but it seems to me that such a system would make scenario construction almost comically simple.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:23 PM   #45
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

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Interesting list -- seems reasonable at a glance, but I need to think more.

Are you thinking that infantry would be provided on GEV-PCs? As part of a mixed reinforcement group, it seems appropriate. Maybe a pure infantry reinforcement could be on foot.
I had INF listed in 3 ways: Riding GEV-PCs or tanks, by themselves, or as part of a combined arms force - primarily escorting MHWZ, but there are a couple of mixed forces in there. I figured the oddballs would fall into the category of "you called for help and this is what we could round up in time", and you'd just have to make do with what showed up.
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:30 AM   #46
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

To allow for re-balancing of the sides after a high VP unit arrives, perhaps you only get to draw a card if you have not already received a reinforcements total no more than 100 VP greater than your opponent.

High command decides "Send the damn Mk V then, that'll shut them up for a while so we can deal with the mess in sector 3 ... but tell them I want it back in ONE PIECE!"
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #47
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

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To allow for re-balancing of the sides after a high VP unit arrives, perhaps you only get to draw a card if you have not already received a reinforcements total no more than 100 VP greater than your opponent.

High command decides "Send the damn Mk V then, that'll shut them up for a while so we can deal with the mess in sector 3 ... but tell them I want it back in ONE PIECE!"
That's a pretty good idea right there. Everybody is ALWAYS screaming for "more," and that would be a pretty good way to make it obvious you aren't going to get any more for a while.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:49 AM   #48
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

Reading this I got a tune from the 1993 film in my head - "Fife and Gun" and thought I should share to help encourage naming ideas.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:20 AM   #49
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

One other idea I had was to have the different point values in separate "decks", and each turn you collected "reinforcement chits" which could be turned in for cards from the different decks at whatever the cost of that deck was. So perhaps you could get 1 6VP reinforcement card every turn, or save up for a few turns to get that 48VP group. Alternately, just make it so that you draw cards and keep them face down, turning them over when you want them and/or trading them in for cards from higher value decks.

Actually, I just thought of a real interesting way to so this, which uses chits and a matrix similar to the CRT. Each player gets 1 chit per turn (or however many is agreed upon). To get reinforcements, you "spend" yout chits and roll against the a table (example below subject to adjustments) to determine which VP pile you draw your card from"

Code:
                 Reinforcement Chits Spent
Die Roll    1      2      3      4      5      6
   1       6 VP   6 VP   6 VP  12 VP  12 VP  18 VP
   2       6 VP   6 VP  12 VP  18 VP  18 VP  24 VP
   3       6 VP  12 VP  12 VP  18 VP  24 VP  36 VP
   4       6 VP  12 VP  18 VP  24 VP  36 VP  36 VP
   5       6 VP  12 VP  18 VP  24 VP  36 VP  48 VP
   6      12 VP  18 VP  24 VP  36 VP  48 VP  48 VP
Looking at the table, there's probably some adjustments to be made, or even do it as a 2d6 table, and/or allow 8-10 chits to be spent to try and summon an Ogre...

EDIT: I hate when my brain grabs on to stuff I shouldn't be doing - here's a 2d6 table that I think looks a little better, and includes an Ogre on a natural 12 with 6 chits spent: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DEzaHFJUTlkUmc

This would allow large groups of reinforcements to be saved and then pulled in either to prevent or exploit a breakthrough, but at the same time you might have waited too long and now the forces aren't all available to you anymore. Also, unbalancing units like Ogres could have on the cards that the opponent gets N additional chits on their next turn to offset the imbalance caused by such a large unit (simulating the fact that an Ogre will likely draw additional reinforcements from HQ).

Heck, you could even use this kind of system to generate unbalanced scenarios from the get-go - instead of handing out VP to players to buy units, give them chits and let them spend them on reinforcement rolls for VP. They could either draw the cards or just total the VP they rolled and buy starting forces, but chances are they wouldn't be starting on a totally even footing...
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Last edited by offsides; 05-22-2012 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Added 2d6 table link
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:18 AM   #50
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Default Re: Gettysburg scenario

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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
One other idea I had was to have the different point values in separate "decks", and each turn you collected "reinforcement chits" which could be turned in for cards from the different decks at whatever the cost of that deck was. So perhaps you could get 1 6VP reinforcement card every turn, or save up for a few turns to get that 48VP group. Alternately, just make it so that you draw cards and keep them face down, turning them over when you want them and/or trading them in for cards from higher value decks.

Actually, I just thought of a real interesting way to so this, which uses chits and a matrix similar to the CRT. Each player gets 1 chit per turn (or however many is agreed upon). To get reinforcements, you "spend" yout chits and roll against the a table (example below subject to adjustments) to determine which VP pile you draw your card from"

Code:
                 Reinforcement Chits Spent
Die Roll    1      2      3      4      5      6
   1       6 VP   6 VP   6 VP  12 VP  12 VP  18 VP
   2       6 VP   6 VP  12 VP  18 VP  18 VP  24 VP
   3       6 VP  12 VP  12 VP  18 VP  24 VP  36 VP
   4       6 VP  12 VP  18 VP  24 VP  36 VP  36 VP
   5       6 VP  12 VP  18 VP  24 VP  36 VP  48 VP
   6      12 VP  18 VP  24 VP  36 VP  48 VP  48 VP
Looking at the table, there's probably some adjustments to be made, or even do it as a 2d6 table, and/or allow 8-10 chits to be spent to try and summon an Ogre...

EDIT: I hate when my brain grabs on to stuff I shouldn't be doing - here's a 2d6 table that I think looks a little better, and includes an Ogre on a natural 12 with 6 chits spent: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DEzaHFJUTlkUmc

This would allow large groups of reinforcements to be saved and then pulled in either to prevent or exploit a breakthrough, but at the same time you might have waited too long and now the forces aren't all available to you anymore. Also, unbalancing units like Ogres could have on the cards that the opponent gets N additional chits on their next turn to offset the imbalance caused by such a large unit (simulating the fact that an Ogre will likely draw additional reinforcements from HQ).

Heck, you could even use this kind of system to generate unbalanced scenarios from the get-go - instead of handing out VP to players to buy units, give them chits and let them spend them on reinforcement rolls for VP. They could either draw the cards or just total the VP they rolled and buy starting forces, but chances are they wouldn't be starting on a totally even footing...
I had a nice long reply keyed in and my browser crashed - grrr

Anyway, trading in cards as VP to get reinforcements - a bit like Risk, but we dont want players to reduce the variety of reinforcements by always trading in the mobile howitzer for 2 heavy tanks, so er, hmmm..?

Your simple VP table looks a bit like the ogre CRT

Starting VP could be generated randomly, and the player with the lower starting VP gets the difference in VP chits for future reinforcements (but watch his face when hes 50 VP down on turn 1 and he draws marines and mobile howitzers for the first 2 turns )

I counted about 100 reinforcement cards needed for the table I initially did some cards for. So I think that number needs reduced down quite a bit before anyone would print a set (and for me to get round to finishing a set) maybe 10-30 cards to a set, printing 9 to a page, so 27 seems like a good number to get started with. Did you see the idea I had for a card for cruse missiles - I don't know if that fits with reinforcements, but I thought I'd put the idea out there.
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