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Old 02-05-2019, 01:45 PM   #11
GranitePenguin
 
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Default Re: LAD pallet in spillover - wha?

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Originally Posted by Mack_JB View Post
My two cents. I've always interpreted LAD as being a fragile piece of tech, and the attacks of any kind destroy them, palleted or set-up.
I'm not saying I don't also believe they are fragile "throw-away" units that give a cheap attack to augment other forces. My point is simply that it isn't clearly detailed if that's true or not.

They "feel like" something that should blow over in a stiff breeze, but that's why we are talking about this in the first place. Rule Lawyers, unite!
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:06 AM   #12
offsides
 
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Default Re: LAD pallet in spillover - wha?

What's interesting is that the LAD rules as currently written make them more fragile than when they were originally created. Originally they ignored D results, though this was removed in the proposed revised rules in the OM Update. OM2 uses the same rule (verbatim) as the BattleBox rules, as discussed here. So LADs have gotten flimsier over time, not stronger.

I think that given the lack of crew, making an operational LAD ignore D results makes sense - the only way I can think of a robotic LAD becoming "disabled" makes sense is if it's either knocked over or otherwise jammed in a way that it's not going to be able to recover from on its own anyway, making it more of an "effective kill" unless CEs go fix it. And since making a LAD "disable" more like a "stuck" is a lot more complicated, I don't think it's worth it even if it is realistic. Maybe make an optional rule that CEs get 1 chance to try and repair/recover a "killed" LAD on an unmodified 6, but that's about it.

That said, if an operational LAD should ignore D results, I think a palletized LAD should be affected by them in some way. The simplest is to make it a kill, but perhaps another optional rule would be that a disabled LAD in pallet form can also be fixed by a CE task (maybe even by normal INF), or that it needs to roll to recover (essentially a D result bounces it around, and the roll is to see if anything got borked or not). As much as a pallet may be harder to destroy, one thing bent the wrong way can prevent it from deploying properly, whereas once deployed it's presumably designed to handle near-misses.

Whatever the answer, I think that the LAD D0 vs disabled question also highlights the need for a streamlined ruleset for exactly what D0 means in various circumstances, and then we can decide if LADs really are D0, and when. As I said before, I have a few ideas about that, and may make a separate post just to keep it clear.
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:38 AM   #13
offsides
 
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Default Re: LAD pallet in spillover - wha?

OK, based on the D0 rules discussion, I'd like to propose the following rule change for LADs. This changes the second- and third-to-last paragraphs of the LAD rules, and nothing else:

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LADs still on a pallet can also be placed as part of a defensive setup. Small, stealthy, and powered down, they are very hard to detect. The opponent will not detect a collapsed LAD until it starts to set up, or until one of his units moves into the hex of the LAD. The LAD player should note which hexes have a LAD emplaced within them, and should be prepared to show this notation when the opponent enters the hex of the LAD. If a collapsed LAD is overrun, it is automatically destroyed unless there are friendly units in the hex. If so, overrun combat occurs normally, and the LAD is destroyed if all the defenders are destroyed, or if it is explicitly targeted during the overrun combat.

LADs still on a pallet may be attacked directly prior to setting up. A LAD on a pallet is treated as cargo; it is destroyed by any direct attack, but is immune to spillover fire. LADs on a pallet that are being transported are destroyed when the transport is destroyed (or per 15.02.1 when transported by a Vulcan).
The above wording (my changes in bold) eliminates the entire D0 confusion, as well as making the distinction between a LAD as a unit (that is, set up) and a LAD as cargo on a pallet (vulnerable to direct attacks but not spillover, automatically destroyed by being overrun). There also needs to be some D0 rules clarifications, but I'll leave that in the other thread.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: LAD pallet in spillover - wha?

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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
OK, based on the D0 rules discussion, I'd like to propose the following rule change for LADs. This changes the second- and third-to-last paragraphs of the LAD rules, and nothing else:
Sounds reasonable to me.
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