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Old 01-25-2019, 02:43 PM   #1
Bowser
 
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Default Ogre Rules editions

OK. I'm trying to pin down just what all of the editions of the Ogre rules are. If I can get this worked out so I can understand it, I may then try to go for the editions of G.E.V..

For the newer players who may not know, what is now a combined unified Ogre game was once two games. The stuff that is in the Ogre 6th Edition, that is, the orange map, rules for the Ogres and only some of the armor and infantry units were pretty much the original 1977 game of Ogre. New varied terrain (forest, swamp, etc.), a few more units, and some overrun rules came in a new game called G.E.V. G.E.V. wasn't just an expansion (although it functioned that way), it was a playable game on its own and was a lot of fun for two sides without either side having any Ogres.

My intent here is to function on the editions of Ogre. That is, what were the different editions and what was changed in them? It would be nice if we could hammer out a definitive list, but Evil Stevie may have to help us.

Newer players should note that while Steve Jackson created both Ogre and G.E.V., both games were published by Metagaming as "Microgame 1" and "Microgame 8" respectively. Steve Jackson Games bought the rights to both games and were publishing their own versions by 1982.

1977's first printing (cover was black, white and a little red), with the very plain map was the First Edition.

One of the changes that (I assume) helped mark the Second Edition was the change in G.E.V. movement from 4/4 to 4/3.
a. Were there other changes?
b. Did this change correspond to the change in the cover art or not?

I believe that the full color cover version of Ogre dates from 1978. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that this new cover was done to correspond to the release of the G.E.V. game. Ogre ended up having a total of three different covers while published by Metagaming: an (almost) black and white version, a fairly blah full color version (probably 1978), and a cooler, flashier full color version (between 1978 and 1981). But the rules didn't go through that many changes.

I think that Metagaming only published the First Edition and the Second Edition.

Steve Jackson Games first published Ogre and G.E.V. in 1982. What I don't remember is if SJG published a version that was "pre-Pocket Box" or if their own first printing was in the Pocket Box. Either way, I'll go on record as assuming that this first SJG version is the Third Edition of the rules. Oh, yeah, this edition of the games introduced those tremendous painted versions of both the "green" and the "orange" maps that are very close to those maps we have today.

1987 or 1988 saw a larger boxed edition of the game with a mounted orange map with die-cut counters and plastic tabs that you could fit them into so that they would stand up. This was sold as Deluxe Ogre. I cannot confirm anything about this edition as my copy was destroyed when a friend's basement flooded. *sigh* But I don't think there were any rule changes.

I have read elsewhere that 1990 saw a combined edition of Ogre and G.E.V. that featured the rules to both games printed together back-to-back and upside down. This edition has been called the "Doubleday" edition (don't know why). I've never owned a copy but would love to have a jpg file of the cover. I suspect that this version of the rules constitutes the Fourth Edition. I think that all editions after this one were "combined", that is, both games were published together with the exceptions of the "Deluxe Ogre" and "Deluxe G.E.V." miniatures from the early 2000s (which may or may not have included the rules or maps, only the miniatures - can someone confirm this?).

Y2K (i.e. the year 2000) was a good year for Ogre. Ogre/G.E.V. was published in a slipcased VCR plastic box and this version is definitely the Fifth Edition of the rules. I've mostly played the game when it was in the Third Edition or even earlier printings, but I've referred to the rules more often over the (almost) last two decades from a Fifth Edition standpoint. I still refer to those rules even after the publication of ODE because I compare them a fair amount. Yes, the so-called Y2K version is definitely the Fifth Edition.

The Ogre Designer's Edition or ODE Kickstarter was launched on April 11, 2012 and the massive (28 pounds!!!) game was distributed to backers by November/December of 2013. The ODE rules are definitely the Sixth Edition of the rules.

I should perhaps refer to the Sixth Edition family of rules. This may become clear as I make the following list:

2013: ODE version of the Sixth Edition rules, hereafter referred to as Sixth Edition version "1.0".

June, 2012: Rules for Pocket Ogre. Rules document created in June of 2012, the physical game sold in 2013. The game was also included in the ODE Kickstarter bundle. This is a weird hybrid. I quote from the rules themselves: "We decided to go all the way back to the first edition of Ogre and keep the game experience the same, with slightly updated rules and slightly better components." Note that this rule set does NOT include anything that would allow you to play on the "green" maps as this is an Ogre-only set and doesn't include anything from the G.E.V. game.

July, 2014: Errata was collected and organized and a table of rules changes was placed on the forums called "Ogre Designer's Edition: Rules Update". This document stated that any rules set that incorporated these changes should be referred to as Ogre Sixth Edition Rules version 1.1 (July, 2014). To my knowledge, no pdf file of these rules was made.

Feb., 2016: Rules for Ogre Sixth Edition in the box that is much smaller than the 28 lb. monster that is ODE. This version of the game is commonly called the Baby Box. The only map is the "orange" map of original Ogre. There are NO rules that would allow play on the "green" maps, so SJG just cut out all sections of the rules that refer to the "advanced rules". They call this ruleset a "proper subset of the Ogre Designer's Edition rules", and they kept all of the original rules numbers from ODE. Thus, there are obviously missing rules, but you have all you need to play with what actually came in the Baby Box. There is no official number for these rules, but in my files, in order to keep things in chronological order, I've unofficially named this pdf file as version 1.5.

Feb. - May, 2018: The Battle Box rules. This is Ogre Sixth Edition rules version 6.2 (June 2018). I'll quote from the rules themselves to explain them: "This set contains more than 90 miniatures and the most complete rules for Ogre to date. In addition to the material published in Ogre Designer's Edition, there are a number of rules, such as Combat Engineering, that were formerly available only online.

"Because itís complete, you will find descriptions of units and counters not found in this set but in other Ogre releases, such as Ogre Sixth Edition, Ogre Reinforcements, and the upcoming Battlefields supplement."

Whew.

Over the next week or so, I will try to add information that relates to the changes/additions that occur between versions and editions. And this is where I need lots of help. I don't suppose very many people are interested in this project, but we'll see . . .

Thanks,
Bowser
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Old 01-25-2019, 03:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ogre Rules editions

I have every version of Ogre and GEV except for the two combined Ogre/GEV editions. I'm hoping to have the 1990s combined "Fourth" edition soon, but the 2000 printing - in the VHS box - is proving to be a pain to nail down. I can certainly help out here.

I highly recommend you start with the Ogre Ludography on this very site. It covers the printing history of every Ogre product up to about 2013. You can find it here: http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/resources/ludo.html
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Old 01-25-2019, 04:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ogre Rules editions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
1987 or 1988 saw a larger boxed edition of the game with a mounted orange map with die-cut counters and plastic tabs that you could fit them into so that they would stand up. This was sold as Deluxe Ogre. I cannot confirm anything about this edition as my copy was destroyed when a friend's basement flooded. *sigh* But I don't think there were any rule changes.
This is not Deluxe Ogre, it is Ogre: Deluxe Edition. Deluxe Ogre is the Miniatures set.

There weren't any real rules changes, but there were plenty of errata with the unit stats. This one is still my favorite size, the map is a little bigger than the pocket sizes so it's easier to move your pocket counters around on it. It's also the only map that has the stats printed on the board (even though some of them are wrong).

This is probably a good place to mention the various PC versions (Apple, C64, etc) that were released at the same time. There are some real gems in the booklets that came with it.

Quote:
I have read elsewhere that 1990 saw a combined edition of Ogre and G.E.V. that featured the rules to both games printed together back-to-back and upside down. This edition has been called the "Doubleday" edition (don't know why). I've never owned a copy but would love to have a jpg file of the cover. I suspect that this version of the rules constitutes the Fourth Edition. I think that all editions after this one were "combined", that is, both games were published together with the exceptions of the "Deluxe Ogre" and "Deluxe G.E.V." miniatures from the early 2000s (which may or may not have included the rules or maps, only the miniatures - can someone confirm this?)
the 1990 edition is this version. It is a combination of the Fourth Edition of the Ogre rules, and the Third Edition of the G.E.V. rules. The map is the same Orange and Green maps, but printed on a single large sheet of paper.
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Old 01-25-2019, 04:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ogre Rules editions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I think that all editions after this one were "combined", that is, both games were published together with the exceptions of the "Deluxe Ogre" and "Deluxe G.E.V." miniatures from the early 2000s (which may or may not have included the rules or maps, only the miniatures - can someone confirm this?).
yes, the minis boxed sets both came with maps and rules. The maps are paper and a very similar scale to the 6th ed maps.
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Old 01-25-2019, 04:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ogre Rules editions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
I have every version of Ogre and GEV except for the two combined Ogre/GEV editions. I'm hoping to have the 1990s combined "Fourth" edition soon, but the 2000 printing - in the VHS box - is proving to be a pain to nail down. I can certainly help out here.

I highly recommend you start with the Ogre Ludography on this very site. It covers the printing history of every Ogre product up to about 2013. You can find it here: http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/resources/ludo.html
And I have every edition _including_ both combined editions.
I'll second using the ludography page. that won't help with rules diffs, but it will help you itemize all the editions and save some effort.
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ogre Rules editions

I'm assuming you are also focusing only on the boardgame version of Ogre, correct (i.e., not miniatures)?

It may also be necessary to include the various expansions, because once we hit the Designer's Edition, that is an amalgamation of all the available rules redone under the singular "Ogre" name, effectively making them "Ogre rules" and not "expansion rules"
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ogre Rules editions

One thing I should note is that after Ogre 2nd edition, very few rules actually changed. The only one that comes to mind is about SHVY tanks; those have gone through a few revisions over the years, and may yet see further changes. The different editions (at least post-Metagaming) are less about the rules and more about the form factor of the games.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ogre Rules editions

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Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
One thing I should note is that after Ogre 2nd edition, very few rules actually changed. The only one that comes to mind is about SHVY tanks; those have gone through a few revisions over the years, and may yet see further changes. The different editions (at least post-Metagaming) are less about the rules and more about the form factor of the games.
Which is a good point. One of the more interesting changes is the physical size of the Ogre map itself. The 1st edition is actually longer than the current map.
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ogre Rules editions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I have read elsewhere that 1990 saw a combined edition of Ogre and G.E.V. that featured the rules to both games printed together back-to-back and upside down. This edition has been called the "Doubleday" edition (don't know why).
Traditionally, books published that way are often called "dos-ŗ-dos" binding, but more properly that's "tÍte-bÍche" in printing.

It may be called "Doubleday" because early publisher George H. Doran Company used it, and they were later merged with Doubleday.
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