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Old 03-26-2018, 09:24 AM   #1
ArchonShiva
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Affording racial templates

DFA42 says you can use points from discretionary skill choices to pay for a template, and proceed to give the thief as an example of having "another 7 points to improve any previous skill or add any of these new ones"...

Except only the thief ans scout are even written like that. No other profession gets anything but "X of these skills". It seems very unlikely that only these two professions would be allowed to do this.

Let's round up all the possibilities. Can you use points from...

a) "X of these skills", when they are various normal [1] skills;
b) "X of these skills", when they are special skills (e.g. Chi skills for MA);
c) "One of", usually weapon skills or packages;
d) "One point on each of X spells" (at least this one says it's points!)
e) "All of these skills" when a specialization can be selected;

I'm not looking for advice on how to handle it, I'm looking for clarification of how to interpret the intent. (i.e. writing a blog post on it and want to stick to RAW)
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:50 AM   #2
shadedmagus
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Default Re: Affording racial templates

This is why I house-ruled adding 20 points to the character creation budget, putting race selection first and removing the Cat-Folk template for my game. That way my players could play whatever race they wanted, and humans and halflings get a "bonus" for selecting one of the more mundane races.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:23 AM   #3
Hrothgar Rannúlfr
 
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Default Re: Affording racial templates

Good question. I was wondering along similar lines, too.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:30 AM   #4
Kromm
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Default Re: Affording racial templates

Discretionary skill points are those in the little list at the end of each template. Practical availability is:

Barbarian: 40 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 4 discretionary skill points = 49 points.
Bard: 60 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 6 discretionary skill points = 71 points.
Cleric: 45 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 5 discretionary skill points = 55 points.
Druid: 40 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 3 discretionary skill points = 48 points.
Holy Warrior: 50 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 5 discretionary skill points = 60 points.
Knight: 60 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 5 discretionary skill points = 70 points.
Martial Artist: 40 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 3 discretionary skill points = 48 points.
Scout: 40 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 8 discretionary skill points = 53 points.
Swashbuckler: 60 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 7 discretionary skill points = 72 points.
Thief: 30 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 7 discretionary skill points = 42 points.
Wizard: 30 points from advantages + 5 points from quirks + 9 discretionary skill points = 44 points.

Thus, every profession can be of any race. However, I'd only actively encourage this for the bard, knight, and swashbuckler, who have points to burn. And I'd actively discourage this for the druid and martial artist, who will gimp their powers if they actually take this path.

Also look out for overlap, which makes some things more affordable than they might at first appear. Elf and half-elf wizards, for instance, save 5 points on Magery, so the real template cost is 15 points if you're going to play a wizard anyway.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:00 PM   #5
ArchonShiva
 
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Default Re: Affording racial templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Discretionary skill points are those in the little list at the end of each template. Practical availability is:
Thanks! Those are the numbers I was working with in my blog post.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:14 PM   #6
ArchonShiva
 
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Default Re: Affording racial templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Also look out for overlap, which makes some things more affordable than they might at first appear. Elf and half-elf wizards, for instance, save 5 points on Magery, so the real template cost is 15 points if you're going to play a wizard anyway.
To be clear, Magery 0 for elven wizards and Combat Reflexes for cat-folk swashbucklers are literally the only overlaps currently in DFRPG, right? Everything else just adds to existing levels at normal cost.
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Old 03-26-2018, 02:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Affording racial templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonShiva View Post
To be clear, Magery 0 for elven wizards and Combat Reflexes for cat-folk swashbucklers are literally the only overlaps currently in DFRPG, right? Everything else just adds to existing levels at normal cost.
It "depends" - if you were going to buy up your DX from your default or buy Combat Reflexes (either with discretionary advantage points), then the cat-folk overlaps with those purchases and chips away at the points you needed to allocate. As an example.
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Old 03-26-2018, 02:15 PM   #8
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Affording racial templates

Knights get combat reflexes also
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Old 03-26-2018, 03:31 PM   #9
ArchonShiva
 
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Default Re: Affording racial templates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
It "depends" - if you were going to buy up your DX from your default or buy Combat Reflexes (either with discretionary advantage points), then the cat-folk overlaps with those purchases and chips away at the points you needed to allocate. As an example.
That makes the template give you something you wanted anyway, but you're still paying the full point cost of the template.

Yes to Knight having Combat Reflexes, I scanned for matches between races and professional advantages before I went back to check who had it.
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:14 PM   #10
Kromm
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Default Re: Affording racial templates

The only way your professional template can make your racial template more affordable is if both include an advantage that's (1) mandatory and (2) doesn't come in stackable levels. I believe Combat Reflexes and Magery 0 are the proverbial "it."
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