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Old 10-19-2017, 07:07 PM   #21
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Another point of note - muskets are going to loaded as quickly as possible, but a distant rifleman sniper may have time to use Careful Loading to get some more accuracy out of his weapon. So while the muskets are Acc 2, the rifle is often going to have Acc 4, thanks to both its higher innate accuracy and the +1 for Careful Loading.
That depends. A musket loaded during a formation engagement will be loaded as fast as possible. One loaded before the engagement might be done carefully - accuracy isn't the highest priority, sure, but it costs you very little in that context. And one loaded when you're trying to out-sharpshoot a rifleman with an unrifled musket could very likely be loaded carefully, especially if the rifleman is doing so as well.
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:11 AM   #22
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Default Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
That depends. A musket loaded during a formation engagement will be loaded as fast as possible. One loaded before the engagement might be done carefully - accuracy isn't the highest priority, sure but it costs you very little in that context.
Yep, in fact it was a known effect on the macro scale as well, the first volley was sometimes saved up a bit with the knowledge that it would be the "best" one.

Actually that's a point as well as the extra +1 acc for doing this, I might be tempted to give some benefit in terms of Malf and degrading performance, maybe referencing the 5 shots rules in cleaning and maintenance


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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
And one loaded when you're trying to out-sharpshoot a rifleman with an unrifled musket could very likely be loaded carefully, especially if the rifleman is doing so as well.
True

Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-20-2017 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:25 AM   #23
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Default Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles

It's possible to make a smoothbore reasonably accurate, but it was rarely done. You just need a tight fit of the projectile in the bore. One way to do this is with a tight patch around the projectile, but this sort of reintroduces the problem of slow loading that one gets with a rifle. It's one argument for having that first shot be the best, of course. But the reason that tight musket bores were rare is because black powder causes massive fouling. If the bore was too tight then after a few shots you wouldn't be able to load the musket. And as has been discussed being able to fire a lot and reload quickly was what was desirable. A musket that couldn't be loaded after half a dozen shots wouldn't be very useful in a line of battle.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:36 AM   #24
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Default Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles

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Originally Posted by acrosome View Post
It's possible to make a smoothbore reasonably accurate, but it was rarely done. You just need a tight fit of the projectile in the bore. One way to do this is with a tight patch around the projectile, but this sort of reintroduces the problem of slow loading that one gets with a rifle. It's one argument for having that first shot be the best, of course. But the reason that tight musket bores were rare is because black powder causes massive fouling. If the bore was too tight then after a few shots you wouldn't be able to load the musket. And as has been discussed being able to fire a lot and reload quickly was what was desirable. A musket that couldn't be loaded after half a dozen shots wouldn't be very useful in a line of battle.
Interesting, cheers.

With that in mind I wonder if it would be better to have careful loading cause more problem for cleaning and maintenance (the opposite of what I suggested above!)
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles

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With that in mind I wonder if it would be better to have careful loading cause more problem for cleaning and maintenance (the opposite of what I suggested above!)
No. Or rather 'why would careful loading cause more problems than regular or sloppy loading'?
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:29 PM   #26
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Default Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
No. Or rather 'why would careful loading cause more problems than regular or sloppy loading'?
The reverse direction of causation may make sense though - a fouled musket would probably impede careful loading more than regular loading.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles

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Originally Posted by acrosome View Post
It's possible to make a smoothbore reasonably accurate, but it was rarely done. You just need a tight fit of the projectile in the bore. One way to do this is with a tight patch around the projectile, but this sort of reintroduces the problem of slow loading that one gets with a rifle. It's one argument for having that first shot be the best, of course. But the reason that tight musket bores were rare is because black powder causes massive fouling. If the bore was too tight then after a few shots you wouldn't be able to load the musket. And as has been discussed being able to fire a lot and reload quickly was what was desirable. A musket that couldn't be loaded after half a dozen shots wouldn't be very useful in a line of battle.
Even with a tight fit you still have the problems with unpredictable projectile behavior and stability that rifling solves. Fins are another possibility, but I am not sure if they are at TL4. My guess is that it is probably doable but prohibitively expensive due to quality control.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrosome View Post
It's possible to make a smoothbore reasonably accurate, but it was rarely done. You just need a tight fit of the projectile in the bore. One way to do this is with a tight patch around the projectile, but this sort of reintroduces the problem of slow loading that one gets with a rifle. It's one argument for having that first shot be the best, of course. But the reason that tight musket bores were rare is because black powder causes massive fouling. If the bore was too tight then after a few shots you wouldn't be able to load the musket. And as has been discussed being able to fire a lot and reload quickly was what was desirable. A musket that couldn't be loaded after half a dozen shots wouldn't be very useful in a line of battle.
As I recall, the typical musket line formation of the Colonial (TL5) era was about two or three volleys before bayonets were affixed and melee entered.

In TL4, which the OP specified, and which I (and GURPS) take to be the Renaissance and Age of Sail Exploration, the muskets (which were heavy things needing a musket rest) and their smaller cousins the caliver and carbine tended to hide behind pike walls to protect them from charging infantry and cavalry forces. Being a musketeer required a lot of upper body strength (Low-Tech gives the Musket an ST score of "12R"; even with ST 12 you needed a musket rest to fire it and withstand the felt recoil.) The Colonial-era muskets people are discussing (described in High-Tech) are closer to the Caliver listed in Low-Tech rather than Low-Tech's Musket.
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