D0: Streamlining the rules

[offsides]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

I don't have a problem with this. There's no itemized list of "this type of hit is 'more damaging' than that type of hit;" it's just "a hit."

To your point, though; should there be? Does it make sense that _any_ hit immediately destroys all cargo on top? It certainly seems odd that any hit, especially the treads that are _under_ the cargo on the top of the Vulcan, would result in them being destroyed.

Reality says yes, there definitely should be. KISS says no, it's fiddly enough as is. And to the point, while a single INF hitting treads clearly shouldn't affect cargo on the top deck, what about a HWZ shot? If we're going to differentiate hits against different components, we also have to account for different attack strengths. That said, I'm certainly open to coming up with a better solution that accounts for different types of attacks, I just haven't been able to come up with anything that isn't overly fiddly.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by offsides

That said, I'm certainly open to coming up with a better solution that accounts for different types of attacks, I just haven't been able to come up with anything that isn't overly fiddly.

What about an X from any single A3 (single as in a single attack, whether it's combined units or not)or higher? That way, a 3-INF or MSL or higher can do it

[offsides]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

What about an X from any single A3 (single as in a single attack, whether it's combined units or not)or higher? That way, a 3-INF or MSL or higher can do it

Conceptually, I like the idea of requiring a big enough attack to affect the cargo area. Even if it's not an attack on treads, needing a big enough boom to spill over to the cargo area makes sense. My main concern is that it doesn't line up with any of the other existing mechanics, and therefore doesn't meet the KISS test. Not to mention, it makes the effect against combat units in the cargo area different from the effects on cargo.

I'm really not sure how to solve this one, because on the one hand you're absolutely correct about needing a way to do exactly what you're suggesting, but on the other it's a new mechanic for what's somewhere between an edge and corner case, at least in terms of how often it's likely to come up. But I don't have a better idea either...

(Well, I do, but Car Wars metal armor mechanics don't really help in Ogre... :P)

[ColBosch]

In my Ogrezine II article, "The Dragon and the Daimyo," I have a special rule for the Dragon ultra-heavy tank that differentiates between "major" hits (main and secondary batteries plus exposed missiles and missile racks) and "minor" hits (AP and tread units). That said, I am hesitant to add more special rules to the Vulcan.

I believe that any "X" result against a Vulcan should destroy its exposed cargo. For me, this satisfies all of my requirements for new rules. KISS: It's super-simple, and is close to the "cargo is destroyed when the carrier is destroyed rule;" basically, if you roll an X against a unit, any cargo it might've been carrying is also destroyed. Reality check: we're talking about a nuclear explosion just a few meters away. The spillover rules shouldn't apply, since those simulate units which could be a kilometer or more away from each other, even if still in the same map hex. Try The Stupid Strategies: exposing a unit carrying critical cargo to enemy fire is a serious blunder, and should be discouraged by the rules.

[TheAmishStig]

Which brings up a quick food for thought question:

If a unit is immune to D results, does it count as a hit? If no, that suggestion is already RAW and may just need reworded slightly...

[offsides]

Originally Posted by TheAmishStig

Which brings up a quick food for thought question:

If a unit is immune to D results, does it count as a hit? If no, that suggestion is already RAW and may just need reworded slightly...

As currently written? It's unclear. My updated version explicitly requires an X, partially to solve this problem.

[offsides]

Originally Posted by ColBosch

In my Ogrezine II article, "The Dragon and the Daimyo," I have a special rule for the Dragon ultra-heavy tank that differentiates between "major" hits (main and secondary batteries plus exposed missiles and missile racks) and "minor" hits (AP and tread units). That said, I am hesitant to add more special rules to the Vulcan.

I believe that any "X" result against a Vulcan should destroy its exposed cargo. For me, this satisfies all of my requirements for new rules. KISS: It's super-simple, and is close to the "cargo is destroyed when the carrier is destroyed rule;" basically, if you roll an X against a unit, any cargo it might've been carrying is also destroyed. Reality check: we're talking about a nuclear explosion just a few meters away. The spillover rules shouldn't apply, since those simulate units which could be a kilometer or more away from each other, even if still in the same map hex. Try The Stupid Strategies: exposing a unit carrying critical cargo to enemy fire is a serious blunder, and should be discouraged by the rules.

That's why I'm leaning towards this, even if I 100% agree that having some sort of differentiation makes real-life sense...

[ColBosch]

Originally Posted by offsides

That's why I'm leaning towards this, even if I 100% agree that having some sort of differentiation makes real-life sense...

At some point, you just have to accept that it's a game, not a simulation, and let the edge cases go.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by ColBosch

At some point, you just have to accept that it's a game, not a simulation, and let the edge cases go.

hey, that's my line! :-)