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Old 04-15-2016, 11:36 PM   #1
starslayer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

Really quick question- do cloaks/capes/heavy cloaks (assuming they are thick enough to provide at least one point of DR) count as a layer of armour for the layered armour DX penalty?

IE- say we have a fencer wearing padded cloth, and he decides he also wants a heavy cloak for a mixture of protection and use in combat; is the fencer now at -1DX?
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:01 AM   #2
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

Not sure if there's an official ruling beyond the general if it gives DR it counts towards layering. But if the clock is thick and heavy enough to provide DR I'd say yes.
A heavy/long cape or clock is going to be annoying to fight in anyway as it's going to hang up, wrap around and interfere with you body/limb movement. Unless you pin it back behind you, which infers it not going to be giving much protection (well may be to you back).

Edna's right "no capes" ;-) (well unless you buy cloak skill)

Last edited by Tomsdad; 04-17-2016 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

I'd normally expect a cloak to only provide DR 1R - that is, DR1 but only against attacks from the rear. As such, it covers less than 50% of the armored areas and doesn't count as an armor layer.

A cloak that had front panels sufficient to protect the front is definitely going to be an armor layer. At that point, it's a buff coat that doesn't have any sleeves.
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

Quote:
Originally Posted by starslayer View Post
Really quick question- do cloaks/capes/heavy cloaks (assuming they are thick enough to provide at least one point of DR) count as a layer of armour for the layered armour DX penalty?

IE- say we have a fencer wearing padded cloth, and he decides he also wants a heavy cloak for a mixture of protection and use in combat; is the fencer now at -1DX?
Is this a serious game or DF?

Actually the answer is probably the same for both: No.*

Mostly because it's too annoying to have to do the math just because the PC put on a Cloak (which most of the time is just a piece of clothing).


See this thread of mine for more 'cloak love'.
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Old 04-16-2016, 11:05 AM   #5
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

Quote:
Originally Posted by starslayer View Post
Really quick question- do cloaks/capes/heavy cloaks (assuming they are thick enough to provide at least one point of DR) count as a layer of armour for the layered armour DX penalty?

IE- say we have a fencer wearing padded cloth, and he decides he also wants a heavy cloak for a mixture of protection and use in combat; is the fencer now at -1DX?
Certainly not if he's using the cloak to block with the Cloak skill--this was done by wrapping and/or draping the cloak around the left arm and hand--it's not really being "worn" when used this way.
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Old 04-16-2016, 12:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

Quote:
Originally Posted by starslayer View Post
Really quick question- do cloaks/capes/heavy cloaks (assuming they are thick enough to provide at least one point of DR) count as a layer of armour for the layered armour DX penalty?

IE- say we have a fencer wearing padded cloth, and he decides he also wants a heavy cloak for a mixture of protection and use in combat; is the fencer now at -1DX?
In real life, most people strip off coats, cloaks, and capes before a hand-to-hand fight because they get in the way (eg. a cloak which covers the upper arm weighs you down when you try to raise your arm overhead to thrust overhand or adopt a high guard). I might not worry about this many games, but I would certainly apply the DX penalty to someone who wanted to claim a game benefit for wearing a cloak into combat!
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:51 PM   #7
Lucian
 
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

id say no.

Heres my reasoning.

Dr 1 Cloth armor is not like the ninja turtles T shirt I am currently wearing while typing this. It would have to be some beefy thick cloth. Probably several layers of wool sewn together.

A Cloak is just a thin cloak, probably the same thickness as a pair of jeans or something. Its thin enough to wrap around your arm several times in order to make a crappy shield which is basically good for 1 hit.

If a Cloak was thick enough to provide back DR then it would probably be too cumbersome to use with the cloak skill.

So in short.

If a player wanted a thick cloak id allow it, but it would just be like cloth armor and it wouldnt be useable with cloak skill.
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Old 04-16-2016, 02:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

Realistically, a cloak should probably give a penalty whether or not it provides DR.
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Old 04-16-2016, 03:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

While realistically a cloak should probably provide DX penalties, especially if it grants a bit of DR, we can see from Low Tech pg, 99 that a cloak is a many varied item but by far the most basic one as described on Low Tech Instant Armor pg.20 that cloaks, by default, are only knee length with no hood and protects only torso and thighs from the back only.

Now how this actually affects you comes into play from Low Tech pg103 on layering armor where it only provides penalties where a roll greater than 1-3 out of 6 protects you and I'm going to have to assume, logically, that if you're only protected from the rear, you're not going to exceed that 1-3 roll.

Of course this would probably only apply to the GURPs basic cloak. As said there are myriad versions, including the poncho.

The poncho from Low Tech pg. 99 is similar to a cloak, but it goes over the arms and the front. As the version detailed there isn't one that provides actual DR, it merely interferes with your arms giving -1 DX. I would assume if you somehow managed to create a Heavy Poncho it would, like the Parka above it, grant a complete -1 DX penalty for layering armor on the torso which affects everything you do.
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Last edited by Ternas; 04-16-2016 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Capes/Cloaks and armour layering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
In real life, most people strip off coats, cloaks, and capes before a hand-to-hand fight because they get in the way (eg. a cloak which covers the upper arm weighs you down when you try to raise your arm overhead to thrust overhand or adopt a high guard). I might not worry about this many games, but I would certainly apply the DX penalty to someone who wanted to claim a game benefit for wearing a cloak into combat!
Agreed. Realistically a cloak will always give a DX penalty but I would waive this unless the player wants to claim a DR benefit from it, in which case they also suffer the DX penalty.
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Last edited by DanHoward; 04-16-2016 at 06:45 PM.
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