Fourth Age of Middle Earth gaming

[combatmedic]

No, one doesn’t have to have been to war to write such a scene (BTW, I NEVER made such a claim, so I don't feel obligated to defend it). But I do think that you missed the significance of the passage.


Samwise isn't merely frightened or disgusted in that scene, Flyn. He feels empathy for the enemy. He exercises his moral imagination. He recognizes the humanity of the dead man. This is the opposite of dehumanization, a reaction against the brutality of war.


YMMV,as always.



Maybe more context would have helped?
Again, you should read the books. The movies are alright, but they cannot carry the full story.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

No, one doesn’t have to have been to war to write such a scene (BTW, I NEVER made such a claim, so I don't feel obligated to defend it). But I do think that you missed the significance of the passage.


Samwise isn't merely frightened or disgusted in that scene, Flyn. He feels empathy for the enemy. He exercises his moral imagination. He recognizes the humanity of the dead man. This is the opposite of dehumanization, a reaction against the brutality of war.


YMMV,as always.


Maybe more context would have helped?
Again, you should read the books. The movies are alright, but they cannot carry the full story.

That sounds more like what non-war like me would do in that scene. I don't think I'm capable of dehumanizing anyone no matter what.
I thought you and others were suggesting that his war experience colored his writing. and used that scene as an example.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I don't think it requires one to have fought in a war to know that war is hellish and disgusting even when necessary.

No doubt. But that doesn't mean you can write about the actual experience. Pretty much any actual human experience has a texture that's hard to imagine if you haven't experienced it.

And beyond that, the real point isn't that Tolkien was exceptionally or extraordinarily well informed about war. Rather, it was that whatever experience of war he had may have been part of the emotional source for his fiction.

Bill Stoddard

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by whswhs

No doubt. But that doesn't mean you can write about the actual experience. Pretty much any actual human experience has a texture that's hard to imagine if you haven't experienced it.

And beyond that, the real point isn't that Tolkien was exceptionally or extraordinarily well informed about war. Rather, it was that whatever experience of war he had may have been part of the emotional source for his fiction.

Bill Stoddard

Yes. This.

QFT.

[combatmedic]

Back to the thread topic--

Some questions about gaming in the Fourth Age--


Which game system would you use?

How would magic work in that system?

Which races would you allow for PCs?

[merry442]

Originally Posted by whswhs

No doubt. But that doesn't mean you can write about the actual experience. Pretty much any actual human experience has a texture that's hard to imagine if you haven't experienced it.

And beyond that, the real point isn't that Tolkien was exceptionally or extraordinarily well informed about war. Rather, it was that whatever experience of war he had may have been part of the emotional source for his fiction.

Bill Stoddard

Great writing benefits from the ability to experience emotions intensely and to express them in a way that is profound to those who have not experienced them or have heard the same tales told repeatedly but with no emotional crisis.

It strikes me that Sam was not a soldier or even trained in the discipline of a soldier. but he is able to experience the blunt edge of war in its most simple terms. Tolkien has the ability to anticipate the dynamics of the human heart and thus has little need to retell the story of mustard gas, Hotchkiss guns, digging trenches or preparing a grave for a close friend who only a minute ago could have been reflecting on the principle contents of the morning's breakfast.

In a slightly lesser sense, this is the job of the gamemaster: to embolden his/her players to live out the most emotionally intense moments of life retold in a setting like the Fourth Age or perhaps any age of middle earth. The human heart that bled and agonized over the tragedy of WWI is the same human heart that dwells inside a quiet and possibly illiterate farmer just beginning his journey across the western lands or across the Harad lands to the south. This is the essense of what is often termed as literary or grammatical and has also been called bardic lore in a similar fantasy rpg. I think the principle applies to gamemastering.

[merry442]

[QUOTE=combatmedic;1511279]Back to the thread topic--

Some questions about gaming in the Fourth Age--

Which game system would you use?

I would use a d20 system but not necessarily the fourth edition. The reason is that d20 has been used so often in fantasy settings that it is perceived as being an ideal fantasy system. This is of course not necessarily true and I believe the original CODA system could be used just as effectively

How would magic work in that system?

Magic rules would have to be rearranged in terms of the different schools used in Mordor and the human kingdoms. There could be divine magic such as was once used by Saruman and Gandalf, nature magic or enchanting used by elven or goblin races and finally dark magic which would be available to characters playing orcish or Morgul characters.

I think I would prefer a magic system that concentrated on illusions, natural magic and evocations at early levels and offered possibilities for the study of conjuring and necromancy at higher levels. There should be a choice to create a Sharkey/Saruman wizard as well as a Gandalf (Light guardian) type wizard and finally, a fatherly charismatic character such as Denethor. The ability to use palantirs and "magic rings" could be available to epic-tier characters as long as other epic characters also had access to them.

I think the use of seer-stones and palantirs should be limited simply because there weren't an abundance of them in the third age and they could act as spoilers for adventures happening in a localized area.

Which races would you allow for PCs?

I would allow humans, dwarves and possibly half-orcs (if there could be quickie rules for them). I think elves and fey creatures have a potential of being immortal creatures and might lead to some play imbalances. Hobbits as PCs would be great but with similar half-ling stats as in other fantasy games

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Back to the thread topic--

Some questions about gaming in the Fourth Age--


Which game system would you use?

When I did it before I used ForeSight and its fantasy supplement HindSight, which were satisfactory. I might use them again, or I might take FATE, tweak it (the combat and injury system in particular) to be a bit more concrete and straightforward, and run it without the queer back-to-front features it has.

How would magic work in that system?

The HindSight magic system would be fine as is, I think, at least for the dangerous non-Elvish meddling-with-nature stuff. But I would suppress the starred applications and perhaps a few whole fundamentals. The Talent would be very rare, or course, which would leave most magicians doing things the hard way, using Natural Philosophy to work rituals. Elvish craft would be tricky in HindSight.

In FATE "Elvish Craft" would be a Stunt that allowed its possessor to spend a Fate point to add a permanent Aspect to anything she or he had made, provided that his or her result on the crafting roll was good enough: Great, perhaps. Other special gifts llike Aragorn's healing powers would be Aspects. The Black Art would be trickier: I would probably handle it by fiat.

Which races would you allow for PCs?

When I did it before I had a non-Durinite dwarf from the Ered Luin, a young Black Númenorean, a man of the Mark, and a Púkel-man who was quickly replaced by a silvan elf of Lhûn.

If I were doing it again I'd be open to pretty much any races I can think of ab initio, but the choice would close in a bit as I settled on a specific campaign framework. The Calaquendi would probably be the first thing ruled out as campaign specifics firmed up, followed closely by orcs, I think.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

You are missing the context, Jason. They had been discussing Frodo and Samwise.

I meant the "then it is a good dream" scene. They were in bed making out at the time.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I don't think it requires one to have fought in a war to know that war is hellish and disgusting even when necessary.

No it doesn't. But some of the details(like the long waiting at Minas Tirith waiting for the balloon to go up) do seem to have been drawn from his personal experience.