11-20-2008, 02:23 PM | #21 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and some other bits.
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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11-20-2008, 02:34 PM | #22 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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But he was talking about the kind of people who fire #125 bows. And those aren't as scary. An English longbowman, at least as I imagine him in my campaigns, has an effective ST of 15+ (any combination of ST, Strongbow and Arm ST). But I note that using 3 x Basic Lift means that that remains true. Using 2.25xBL, however, means that anyone using a #150 warbow has to be ST 18! I think that firing a bow of that draw should be difficult, but not impossible. ST 18, at least in my vision of the world, is rarer than hen's teeth (Lifting ST 18 is somewhat more common).
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11-20-2008, 02:35 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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Muskets and Crossbows are DX/E. Grab your conscript and give him 4 weeks training and he'll have DX/E [1] 10. Assuming you give him a goats foot with his outsize crossbow, he'll manage 1d+4 with Acc4 out to 280 yds. With a musket it's 4d with Acc 2 out to 100 yds but he gets almost double the 1/2D range and that's twice the damage at treble the effective Longbow range. At TL4, you'll be using flintlocks; quicker reload and 2.5x1/2D range. Versus armour? GURPS TL3 plate is DR7; with a Longbow, you'll need extra muscles and real good luck on your die rolls to do anything or am I reading the stats wrong? Crossbows penetrate plate with comparative ease, and muskets can ignore it. The only place where Longbows win is reload rate:( So, Longbow man, 6-12 years training, for a weapon of no use against heavy armour v's crossbow/musket, 4 weeks training, for battlefield clearance...
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11-20-2008, 02:36 PM | #24 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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That's if we don't change anything else.
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11-20-2008, 02:39 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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Rasing ST doesn't take anywhere near 6-12 years. Just look at a lot of athletes throughout history who've gone up weight classes or improved their performance.
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11-20-2008, 03:56 PM | #26 | |||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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Multiplier Bow ST 2 2.25 2.5 3 10 40 45 50 60 12 58 65 72 86 14 78 88 98 118 16 102 115 128 154 18 130 146 162 194 20 160 180 200 240 2.25 does indeed put it at a ST18 bow, but with up to +4 available with Arm ST (special exercises) and up to +2 more ST with strongbow bonus based on skill, ST14 for a professional archer trained from birth isn't all bad. Still, that's 40pts on ST and even more on exercises and a few more on skill. 2.5 puts a ST20 bow, at 200lbs (beyond the upper end of bow draw I've seen quoted of 180lbs). Seems OK, and having a typical person of ST10 be capable of drawing a 50lb bow (and a 70lbs bow being ST12) without training or special exercises works for me. Hunters with lots of practice can draw a hunting bow with DX+2 and ST10 of 70lbs. And ST10 with a bow ST of 14 with special exercises and DX-based skill with Strongbow is a legit archer build. 3.0 multiplier puts the upper end of the typical medieval bow at ST17. A 150lb bow would be ST16...which would only deliver 1d imp of damage based on the kinetic energy alone. If we think that a typical bow can punch through more than 1mm of armor, we need an armor divisor to compensate. So maybe the 2.5 to 3.0 multipliers are six of one, half-dozen of the other, but the higher multiplier gives (on the one hand) VERY powerful bows more upper end in penetration (since the 150lb "reference bow" at 1d worth of KE for a target-style point would happen at a lower bow ST).
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11-20-2008, 03:58 PM | #27 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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The stats I saw today for medieval crossbows suggested that crossbow damage and longbow damage should be much closer to equivalent than not. The velocity of a 100-150lb longbow projectile at 60g and a 780lb crossbow also with a 60g projectile were nearly identical in the comparison I saw. The longbow being much, much more efficient than the crossbow. Something to think about.
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11-20-2008, 04:28 PM | #28 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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Strongbow Perk is only for those who have 10 points or more in an archery style, which I'd say is rare for a modern man, but reasonable for a historical archer. It works normally in this scheme. Quote:
How good was the reproduction bow? How skilled and strong was the archer? In other words, is this an absolute upper limit? Quote:
I think that the occasional high damage roll representing a lucky angle or hitting a weak point is fun and gamable, but I don't think that arrows historically penetrated armour at all. I'd like to strike some sort of balance between 'impossible' and 'rare', though. Since ST damage is too high anyway, it's okay if we come out a little high too, as long as the relative effectiveness of weapons is plausible.
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11-20-2008, 04:32 PM | #29 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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But crossbows do allow some extremely high draw weights, up to #1200. That would be an unwieldly and heavy crossbow, but it might hit harder than a longbow.
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11-20-2008, 06:20 PM | #30 | |
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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Re: Low-Tech Missile Weapon Range and Accuracy
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bow, crossbow, low-tech, missile weapons |
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