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Old 08-23-2018, 12:09 PM   #11
Polydamas
 
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Default Re: QQ 8-12 fo

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
While I'm in general agreement that gods could have IQ 10, at least in their mythological/anthropomorphic manifestations, I can't think either of those is the best example. Herakles is a classic "work smarter" guy, relying on rational plans when his strength isn't quite up to a task, as in the cleaning of the Augean stables (where he used Engineer) and the quest where he got Atlas to fill in for him while he held up the sky/earth (was that the Golden Apples of the Hesperides? anyway, probably Diplomacy). As for Odin: god of wisdom, inventor of runes, master wizard, war leader, spy, stratagist, king of the gods, riddlemaster, sharp bargainer—if there's anyone in mythology who justifies a high GURPS IQ I think it's Odin (and Loki's not far behind him, though Loki tends to outsmart himself). I'd say around 13 for Herakles and maybe 16 for Odin.

Now, Hephaistos has a narrower intelligence and is socially clueless; neither Hestia nor Aphrodite is particularly smart; Ares is a murderous thug. Heimdal has keen senses but isn't an intellectual, and Thor is fairly consistently thick as a brick (the MCU movies get that closer to right than the comics used to). So sure, IQ 8-12 for the lot of them seems about right.
Also, high Intelligence makes characters very versatile. It is the talent for too many skills to bother listing. And most anthropomorphic gods and godesses are not versatile: they have intense and focused interests and passions. I can't imagine Inana mastering say pottery on a whim (default skill 15+), she would vamp the nearest master potter, or summon spirits to do it, or just do it with magic. She likes kingship and sex and war and horses and lions and greenery, she does not care about baked clay.
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Gods and Demigods - not really that smart

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Think about YOUR characterization of a god. You're going to have to make some calls about their stats and abilities. I actually think Heracles is one of the more clever Gods. Almost none of his feats are those of strength alone. He figures out solutions to invulnerable monsters, cleans stables through engineering, tricks titans, and negotiates with Gods, even before he fully joins their ranks.
That's why Herakles, in earlier representations, is shown with his bow, a symbol of cunning and wit. It's only later that he's always shown with a club, to symbolise his great strength. Basically he got flanderised into 'the strong guy' over time.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: QQ 8-12 fo

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Also, high Intelligence makes characters very versatile. It is the talent for too many skills to bother listing. And most anthropomorphic gods and godesses are not versatile: they have intense and focused interests and passions. I can't imagine Inana mastering say pottery on a whim (default skill 15+), she would vamp the nearest master potter, or summon spirits to do it, or just do it with magic. She likes kingship and sex and war and horses and lions and greenery, she does not care about baked clay.
Really? Me, I'm inclined to think Inanna might have a disinclination to turn her hand to pottery but it's something she could easily do if it was set to her as a challenge.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: Gods and Demigods - not really that smart

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That's why Herakles, in earlier representations, is shown with his bow, a symbol of cunning and wit. It's only later that he's always shown with a club, to symbolise his great strength. Basically he got flanderised into 'the strong guy' over time.
It's not just flanderization. Apparently the Persian invasions gave the Persians a bad image as the prototypical "barbar" people, and also as natural slaves who crawled before their kings. And the characteristic Persian weapon was the bow, which came to be seen as the weapon of barbarians and snipers afraid of a fair fight. So images of Herakles carrying that sissy weaponi weren't cool any more.
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Old 08-23-2018, 05:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: Gods and Demigods - not really that smart

Gods and demigods can be superhumanly smart (IQ 20+), but they are defined by their passions. Aphrodite could have IQ 40, but it is her Lecherousness (6-) that defines her rather than her IQ, whether it is 10 or 40, so she will always seem vapid rather than wise. Regardless of their IQ though, gods and demigods should have at least one mental disadvantage at 6-, to represent their passions.
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Gods and Demigods - not really that smart

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Gods and demigods can be superhumanly smart (IQ 20+), but they are defined by their passions. Aphrodite could have IQ 40, but it is her Lecherousness (6-) that defines her rather than her IQ, whether it is 10 or 40, so she will always seem vapid rather than wise. Regardless of their IQ though, gods and demigods should have at least one mental disadvantage at 6-, to represent their passions.
When does Aphrodite do anything even as smart as a smart human, let alone superhumanly smart? "I can imagine that she might be as smart as X" doesn't seem like evidence.
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: QQ 8-12 fo

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
While I'm in general agreement that gods could have IQ 10, at least in their mythological/anthropomorphic manifestations, I can't think either of those is the best example. Herakles is a classic "work smarter" guy, relying on rational plans when his strength isn't quite up to a task, as in the cleaning of the Augean stables (where he used Engineer) and the quest where he got Atlas to fill in for him while he held up the sky/earth (was that the Golden Apples of the Hesperides? anyway, probably Diplomacy). As for Odin: god of wisdom, inventor of runes, master wizard, war leader, spy, stratagist, king of the gods, riddlemaster, sharp bargainer—if there's anyone in mythology who justifies a high GURPS IQ I think it's Odin (and Loki's not far behind him, though Loki tends to outsmart himself). I'd say around 13 for Herakles and maybe 16 for Odin.

Now, Hephaistos has a narrower intelligence and is socially clueless; neither Hestia nor Aphrodite is particularly smart; Ares is a murderous thug. Heimdal has keen senses but isn't an intellectual, and Thor is fairly consistently thick as a brick (the MCU movies get that closer to right than the comics used to). So sure, IQ 8-12 for the lot of them seems about right.
Hestia spent all her time tending the fire and becoming one of the few goddesses no one says anything bad about. She doesn't go in for idiotic stunts like trying to win a beauty contest against Aphrodite then getting in a huff because she can't. Saying she wasn't intelligent because she was a virgin who never got out of the house is kind of like saying Jane Austen wasn't intelligent. We simply have no way to tell her intelligence because no myths are remembered about her. We just know she never got into trouble.

Athena was unquestionably bright and is one of the ones that goes over better to a modern audience. She could do weird things on occasion.
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: Gods and Demigods - not really that smart

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When does Aphrodite do anything even as smart as a smart human, let alone superhumanly smart? "I can imagine that she might be as smart as X" doesn't seem like evidence.
Plotting the founding of Rome generations in advance is something.
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Gods and Demigods - not really that smart

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A lot of the myths I know seem more like a lack of knowledge for whoever invented the stories. In that they had to come up with genius scenarios for the heroes to outsmart someone with, but they don't have high levels of strategy themselves to do so.
We see the simplicity of the plans and take that to mean the characters are idiots rather than the intended feature of the heroes being super intelligent.
Who wants to get drunk in a tavern while listening to an in-depth analysis of Operation Torch by a lecturer talking in an Oxbridge accent? OK maybe I do. But really?

Of course Xenophon would have loved the idea. And one of the most famous writings about Socrates is "Drinking party." But a lot of the stories were written for dumb people, or at least people uninterested in being particularly smart at that moment. It really says more about the audience then the teller. And still more about the flexibility of the media.
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: Gods and Demigods - not really that smart

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Plotting the founding of Rome generations in advance is something.
Venus rather than Aphrodite, and in a literary work, and one consciously written as political propaganda, rather than in a myth. But okay, yes, that's a plausible example of being smart.
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