What Is There To Summon?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by scc

So you've saved up your points and brought a level of Planar Summons, so what can you actually summon?

The problem here is you don't just 'buy a level of Planar Summons". You put 1 point into Planar Summons (Plane) or Planar Summons (Specific Creature), as per your GM's ruling.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

The problem here is you don't just 'buy a level of Planar Summons". You put 1 point into Planar Summons (Plane) or Planar Summons (Specific Creature), as per your GM's ruling.

Yep.

One time, with a Great Wheel cosmology from That Other Game, I gave a character Planar Summons (Outlands) (or whatever that true neutral plane in the middle is), and used it to summon extraplanar Dire critters.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Culture20

Even if they did gratefully grant wishes for being released from bottle traps, they doubtlessly would be less pleased about being unceremoniously ripped from their true home.

Indeed - the "wishes" were usually service in return for release from the binding. As with all bargains made with powerful supernatural beings, it's wise to make sure they commit to leaving you alone in the future ... and wiser still not to get involved at all given that many of them will look for a way around whatever they promised.

[scc]

You know there's another question I can ask to get the answers I want to this: What has been shown to be summonable in the past? Books, TV shows, other games, anyone have any choice picks?

[AlexanderHowl]

In fiction, planer creatures can come from other worlds within the same Universe, other timelines within the same Multiverse, and/or other planes within the same Reality (Marvel has used all three). So, the question becomes how do you define planes in your gameworld? In general, you end up with Planar Summons associated with the creatures who have visited your gameworld in the past.

For example, if your gameworld is based on Norse mythology, you would have a Planar Summons spell for each of the eight other worlds than Midgard (meaning that you will probably be needing a lot of FP). If your gameworld is based off Christian mythology though, you might just have four Planar Summons (Faerie, Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory). If your gameworld is based off the Marvel 'Universe' though, you could have thousands of possible Planar Summons spells, given the number of aliens, outtimers, and spirits that have appeared in the comics.

[The Colonel]

If you dig around enough in the Palladium system, that allows characters to summon anything for which they know the true name ... which includes other mortals and animals. Of course, being mundane, they might not appear at once.

When setting up a summoning system for a setting, be aware also of the metaphysics of the thing ... there are various kinds of "summoning" with different flavours. Things to consider:
1) (When) is control gained over the summoned creature?
2) Where does the summoned creature arrive? Can you summon it into a binding circle or does it just pop up?
3) Can the creature in question come and go without being summoned?
4) Speaking of which, what do you need to do to get it to leave again?

... those are just off the top of my head. There may be others.

[AlexanderHowl]

In the case of summoning deities and titans, there should probably not be specific summoning spells for them, as their high point values and high Wills make them effectively impossible to summon or control. Instead, I would make a Planar Contact spell (same prerequisites as Planar Summons, but only 20 FP to cast, the caster communicates in a fashion that both can understand instead of summoning the entity, and the entity either provides a minor boon or allows for the negotiation of caster services for major boons) with a mandatory specialty for each deity or titan. It would better represent spells that allow cultists to receive orders from their masters than Planar Summons.

Now, the question becomes what is a minor boon? I would suggest that the nature of the minor boon would vary from entity to entity, but it should probably be equivalent to one use of a spell related to the purviews of the entity at IQ+10 (the caster channels a fraction of the capabilities of the entity but the caster pays the FP). As for services and major boons, that is up to the GM.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by scc

You know there's another question I can ask to get the answers I want to this: What has been shown to be summonable in the past? Books, TV shows, other games, anyone have any choice picks?

All of the creature cards in Magic the Gathering are supposed to magical spells that summon the creature. Naruto has the ability to summon frogs of various size up to an including what is basically a frog god. In Shadowrun a Shaman can summon a "nature spirit". Various sources have people who can summon a dragon. Oh and it's surprisingly common to be able to summon Japanese teenagers in anime.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

If you dig around enough in the Palladium system, that allows characters to summon anything for which they know the true name ... which includes other mortals and animals. Of course, being mundane, they might not appear at once.

When setting up a summoning system for a setting, be aware also of the metaphysics of the thing ... there are various kinds of "summoning" with different flavours. Things to consider:
1) (When) is control gained over the summoned creature?
2) Where does the summoned creature arrive? Can you summon it into a binding circle or does it just pop up?
3) Can the creature in question come and go without being summoned?
4) Speaking of which, what do you need to do to get it to leave again?

... those are just off the top of my head. There may be others.

Does the Summoning Spell (or whatever) provide a means of rapid transportation for the creature (which can be blocked) or do they have to use their own powers/legs (Which can be restricted or blocked in a different way)?
Is the summoned creature "Real"? Are they the true creature and killed forever when killed, or are they a copy/shadow/silmacularum of a creature, and merely "dismissed" by being "killed"?

D&D's summoned animals are copies of the platonic ideal of the animal (found on other planes of existence), and are generally excused from moral issues surrounding sending them into combat, even if all you did was throw a summoned badger into the mouth of a dragon to delay its bite attack one round. No comment on how the badger feels about this or whether it remembers from summoning to summoning.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In the case of summoning deities and titans, there should probably not be specific summoning spells for them, as their high point values and high Wills make them effectively impossible to summon or control.

Call of Cthuluhu sees your argument, s******s* and points to the Charles Dexter Ward principle ... the system lets you summon anything, but as we all know "can" and "should" are not the same thing.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Does the Summoning Spell (or whatever) provide a means of rapid transportation for the creature (which can be blocked) or do they have to use their own powers/legs (Which can be restricted or blocked in a different way)?
Is the summoned creature "Real"? Are they the true creature and killed forever when killed, or are they a copy/shadow/silmacularum of a creature, and merely "dismissed" by being "killed"?

D&D's summoned animals are copies of the platonic ideal of the animal (found on other planes of existence), and are generally excused from moral issues surrounding sending them into combat, even if all you did was throw a summoned badger into the mouth of a dragon to delay its bite attack one round. No comment on how the badger feels about this or whether it remembers from summoning to summoning.

Yeah ... all the sort of flavour that is missing from so many magic systems. I'm a big fan of a lot of physical summons being actually manifested from ectoplasm - the actual spirit running the thing is insubstantial but forms a temporary physical body.

We forget that in most occult traditions the summoner stands inside the circle and calls for whatever he's trying to summon. The circle keeps the summoned entity out, rather than in.

*"1.a half-suppressed, typically scornful laugh" ... not popular with the language filter due to S****horpe syndrome.