Experience Points

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

I'm currently reading through Tollenkar's Lair and realized that the biggest villians will need to be redone due to the new limitation on attributes. Tollenkar, for example, is a 60 point character with ST 18, DX 17, IQ 25
...

Hi Luguvalium, everyone.
I don't think that there is much point in rewriting Tollenkar until we see what the new TFT rules actually are. However, a wizard that powerful, likely has gained a few wishes in his time. So I would not worry too much if he is over 40 attributes.

If there was a Expert Caster talent that gave a wizard +3 DX for spell casting, EVERY wizard would want it. I wrote in a previous post a suggestion that we phase out talents that boost DX. So I strongly would recommend against this.

Warm regards, Rick.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

I'm currently reading through Tollenkar's Lair and realized that the biggest villians will need to be redone due to the new limitation on attributes. Tollenkar, for example, is a 60 point character with ST 18, DX 17, IQ 25

Unless the Attribute Cap is limited to PC's, this *new rule* would instantly block the existence of every literary villainous NPC archetype, from Jackson's Tollenkar, to Lucas' Darth Vader, to Tolkien's Saruman and Sauron.

Think about it.

JK

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

Unless the Attribute Cap is limited to PC's, this *new rule* would instantly block the existence of every literary villainous NPC archetype, from Jackson's Tollenkar, to Lucas' Darth Vader, to Tolkien's Saruman and Sauron.

Think about it.

JK

Hi Jim,
Very good point. But playing devil's advocate I can see a couple counter arguments.

-- Sauron was a god. Sauruman was an angelic being, so I DON'T think that the attribute cap would apply to them.

-- Let us say that the big bad guy gets some wishes. Assuming wishes can still only raise your attributes to 16, and that no attribute can go above 24, then the best possible character is 16, 16, 24 which is a 56 point character.

Warm regards, Rick.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Hi Jim,
Very good point. But playing devil's advocate I can see a couple counter arguments.

I am sure you can Rick; but I have no time, nor interest, in arguments.

Unless the Attribute Cap applies only to PC's, the literary scope for the future of The Fantasy Trip will be severely damaged and handicapped.

Facts are facts.

JK

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Assuming wishes can still only raise your attributes to 16, and that no attribute can go above 24...

I'm confused by this sentence. If you can only raise your attributes to 16, how could they go to 24? And where does this new cap of only 16 come from?

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by JLV

I'm confused by this sentence. If you can only raise your attributes to 16, how could they go to 24? And where does this new cap of only 16 come from?

Hi JLV,
On page 9 of AW it says a wish can raise your attribute, but no higher than 16. That is where the 16's come from.

Steve Jackson when describing the new experience rules said, that if you started with (say) a ST 8, DX 16, IQ 8, and then put everything into DX, you could theoretically reach a DX 24. So the HIGHEST possible attribute in the new TFT was a 24.

So I was saying, that if the Big Bad raised one attribute to 24, and raised the other attributes to 16 with wishes, then a 54 attribute figure is the highest possible under the new TFT rules, as I understand them.

Rick

[zot]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Hi JLV,
On page 9 of AW it says a wish can raise your attribute, but no higher than 16. That is where the 16's come from.

Steve Jackson when describing the new experience rules said, that if you started with (say) a ST 8, DX 16, IQ 8, and then put everything into DX, you could theoretically reach a DX 24. So the HIGHEST possible attribute in the new TFT was a 24.

So I was saying, that if the Big Bad raised one attribute to 24, and raised the other attributes to 16 with wishes, then a 54 attribute figure is the highest possible under the new TFT rules, as I understand them.

Rick

Of course an elf could start at DX 18 and end up with a 26.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Hi JLV,
On page 9 of AW it says a wish can raise your attribute, but no higher than 16. That is where the 16's come from.

Steve Jackson when describing the new experience rules said, that if you started with (say) a ST 8, DX 16, IQ 8, and then put everything into DX, you could theoretically reach a DX 24. So the HIGHEST possible attribute in the new TFT was a 24.

So I was saying, that if the Big Bad raised one attribute to 24, and raised the other attributes to 16 with wishes, then a 54 attribute figure is the highest possible under the new TFT rules, as I understand them.

Rick

Those two rules are clearly mutually exclusive. I suspect the new version will supersede the old one.

[larsdangly]

I think it is clear that SJ is at least mulling over having the game work quite differently for PC's at high levels of experience, and that if he follows through this will mean that generally humanoid powerful NPCs will probably be treated differently as well. My guess is that the way characters will advance once their stats get pegged is through talents (and spells for wizards). But we'll have to see what that looks like. I could probably build a plausible Conan, Aragorn, Galdalf or Elric with a 40 point stat limit, provided there is a way to make the character more than the sum of his or her stats.

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I think it is clear that SJ is at least mulling over having the game work quite differently for PC's at high levels of experience, and that if he follows through this will mean that generally humanoid powerful NPCs will probably be treated differently as well. My guess is that the way characters will advance once their stats get pegged is through talents (and spells for wizards). But we'll have to see what that looks like. I could probably build a plausible Conan, Aragorn, Galdalf or Elric with a 40 point stat limit, provided there is a way to make the character more than the sum of his or her stats.

40pt Gandalf? HA! Galdalf was a demi-god. Where Saruman was chosen to be one of the Istari by Manwe, Gandalf was sent by Aule.

I agree that we will have to wait and see the final rules before we worry about how to break them.