22 WMR v's 22 LR

[jacobmuller]

I can see plenty of stats for 22 LR but can't find 22 WMR.
Would it be d6+2 pi-?

Given a limited choice, which is more practical: WMR or LR?

Why? Cooper said he would have the Scout rifle for hunting and "a 22 pistol" for home defence. Practical man, therefore, I wonder which he'd select.

[Ragitsu]

Well, .22 LR is certainly more common than .22 WMR on Earth.

[Green-Neck]

Ballistically the .22 WMR is very similar to the non-AP version of the 5.7x28 round used in the P90. HT p. 126 gives stats. 4d pi- fired from a carbine. The damage is alot more than a .22 LR. Remember the .22 LR is a civil war cartridge designed for black powder, and now that case is only about 20% filled with modern powder. The .22 WMR however is designed with a much longer cartridge, which is full of modern powder. Your looking at about 320 ft.lbs for the WMR over about 130 for a LR. The 5.7 x 28 [5.7mm is about 0.22"] has about 345. You could go 4d-1 to be conservative.

http://www.originaldissent.com/forum...junk-cartridge

[jacobmuller]

Ah, yes, thank you - I was looking at a Winchester load. The load is important:)
So, it could be anything from a 1d+2 pi- up to a 2d+2 (0.5) pi... And you can buy a pistol with a 30 round box mag. No wonder he suggested a 22 for home defence.

Is it harder to find "on the shelf", ie comparatively fewer stockists?

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Is it harder to find "on the shelf", ie comparatively fewer stockists?

Almost certainly, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's rare. It's like asking if something is harder to find than dirt. If any civilian ammo is available, it will include .22 LR.

[AmesJainchill]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

So, it could be anything from a 1d+2 pi- up to a 2d+2 (0.5) pi... And you can buy a pistol with a 30 round box mag. No wonder he suggested a 22 for home defence.

Where did he say that? I would expect him to expound on the benefits of the 1911, not the .22 Magnum...

[jacobmuller]

Found it whilst browsing G&A, possibly a link into where the idea for the scout rifle came from, but I've a lousey memory. For that matter, it's been so long since I read G&A or anything like it, I didn't even know he was dead until I read the article...

Didn't mention magnum, just "22 pistol". The.308 rifle for game, the pistol for home defence. I know he would vote for bigger bore combat pistols but this wasn't a pistol for combat.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Found it whilst browsing G&A, possibly a link into where the idea for the scout rifle came from, but I've a lousey memory. For that matter, it's been so long since I read G&A or anything like it, I didn't even know he was dead until I read the article...

Didn't mention magnum, just "22 pistol". The.308 rifle for game, the pistol for home defence. I know he would vote for bigger bore combat pistols but this wasn't a pistol for combat.

For home defense, you want some of the same aspects as combat though.

By and large, if you have to shoot at someone in your home, you're going to want them just as dead as if you're shooting at them in combat. You ARE in combat.

So, depending on what you're doing:

For random "someone's breaking into my house" home defense, a shotgun or pistol is good. You likely won't be going through ten clips worth of ammo or nothing; one or two defenders vs a small number of attackers (often one) will be the most likely scenario. Any sort of man-stopping pistol would do, and the .22LR and probably even the .22WMR are both not really in that category. Pretty much anything pi- will not be.

The .22WMR at 40gr and 580m/s is 2d+2 pi-. Given soft lead, though, rather than jacketed, it's likely to be worse at armor penetration than usual FMJ type rounds, although less of a spreading bullet than a designed hollow point.

My calcs have the Five-seveN at 2d+1; it's a bit lighter in weight and not appreciably different in velocity.

However, recently I found this website: http://www.eliteammunition.net/catal...14/7701258.htm where some aftermarket guys are loading 45 and 55 grain bullets to 1975 and 1800fps out of the 5-7 PISTOL. That might get you the 2d+3 pi rating; the lighter, faster more than the slower one (you need a certain velocity to fragment), but both if properly designed for fragmentation will be pretty comparable to 9mm or even 10mm in penetration, and equivalent to .45ACP in wounding. Can't ask much more of a pistol with 20 rounds in it...

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

The .22WMR at 40gr and 580m/s is 2d+2 pi-. Given soft lead, though, rather than jacketed, it's likely to be worse at armor penetration than usual FMJ type rounds, although less of a spreading bullet than a designed hollow point.

You are a champ, DC! For some reason, I kept coming up with 2d+1 for the .22 WMR, and was convincing myself that that was too high :?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

You are a champ, DC! For some reason, I kept coming up with 2d+1 for the .22 WMR, and was convincing myself that that was too high :?

I'll note that in certain regimes, notably small caliber bullets of poor structural integrity moving VERY fast (5.56x45mm, I'm looking at you!) my system tends to overestimate the penetration by a point. For the M193 round (55gr 5.56x45mm at 990m/s) I get 5d+1; for the M855 (62gr at 945m/s) I get 5d+2. I KNOW the 55gr round is defeated by a 1/4" steel plate about 50% of the time, making the real-world penetration 5d exactly. Not sure about the 62gr green-tip.

So it's possible that I'm overstating the penetration of the .22WMR by a point, and that it IS 2d+1. But I think it's likely that the relatively high energy of this bullet puts it more or less where I left it. Note that the 5.7x28mm round is a bit lower because of the light bullet (31gr) and what seems to be a low-power ammo, relatively speaking. The alternate ammo to which I linked (2d+3 pi, maybe, with a 45gr bullet) would definitely be the "Adventurer's Choice," and if I were issued P90s and Five-seveN's as weapons, would likely be the real-world choice as well.