[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Code of Honor

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

British officers don't duck (20 minute YouTube video). As a code to adhere to this survived into at least WW2.

There is no need to duck when there is a hill big enough to put between your army and his.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

There is no need to duck when there is a hill big enough to put between your army and his.

Watch the video. It contains somewhat entertaining tales of British officers doing just what the description says. And no, the Iron Duke doesn't feature.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Watch the video. It contains somewhat entertaining tales of British officers doing just what the description says. And no, the Iron Duke doesn't feature.

If the Iron Duke does not feature then surely there is no point in watching the video at least not as relates to this thread? The claim was that Wellington did seek cover. He would not have sought cover for himself individually-that is he continued to ride back and forth on a horse. He had good reason to do so beside Macho Masochism although I am sure he would have considered that. And he probably would have been on the crest of the hill rather then the reverse slope to get a spyglass on the enemy. But many continental officers had the practice not just of risking their own lives of deploying their men in full view and forcing them to take fire when there was no purpose to be gained from it, and a modern would surely consider that criminal rather then honorable. Wellington however quite regularly did seek cover for his forces certainly on defense in broken terrain where that was a viable option and elementary as it was not everyone did.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

If the Iron Duke does not feature then surely there is no point in watching the video at least not as relates to this thread?

Why? The British Army has produced other officers than Wellington.

Originally Posted by jason taylor

The claim was that Wellington did seek cover. He would not have sought cover for himself individually-that is he continued to ride back and forth on a horse. ... Wellington however quite regularly did seek cover for his forces certainly on defense in broken terrain where that was a viable option and elementary as it was not everyone did.

Are you talking about Wellington personally or not? Because in the post I replied to originally you claimed he sought cover, now you're claiming he did not for himself but did so for his army. It's a bit hard to keep up with what you're saying since you're all over the place.

Watch the video, or don't watch the video I don't give a ****. But if you're responding to what I write respond to what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Why? The British Army has produced other officers than Wellington.


Are you talking about Wellington personally or not? Because in the post I replied to originally you claimed he sought cover, now you're claiming he did not for himself but did so for his army. It's a bit hard to keep up with what you're saying since you're all over the place.

Watch the video, or don't watch the video I don't give a ****. But if you're responding to what I write respond to what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

No it's not if you know history and know English reasonably well. It is perfectly common to refer to a commander individually when one is actually referring to his orders to his command as a corporate body. When one says "Montommery attacked Rommel at El Alamein", one does not mean he went up to him and punched him in the nose personally. It is worth pointing out because using one's men's lives to flatter one's conceit was not unknown practice at the time and the fact that he did not do so was worth commenting on.

And the fact of there being other British officers besides Wellington obviously figures in the British military budget but it does not necessarily figure directly into a statement about Wellington's command practice.

The point-and where it effects CoH by the way-was that it was in fact known in the eighteenth century to deploy one's men in full sight and force them to take fire unnecessarily.

[Tomsdad]

I guess there's also the point that in the C18th / early C19th deploying in plain sight on the battlefield and being potentially subject to effective fire were two circles on a venn diagram that overlapped less than they would do in later battles.

I.e Sometimes it was worth baiting your opponent's big batteries or deployed regiments into engaging a target (or even better to take the time to reposition to do so) that they might not be able to effect fully. And well sometimes some unluckly regiment/unit gets the unenviable role of "hold this bit of ground under fire as long as you can while the greater plan unfolds around you".

Similarly I got the impression that some of the reluctance to fire at individual commanders was yes part of a gentleman's code*, but also a practical one in that yeah if you manage to plough a cannon ball into Napoleon and his aides likely the battle goes in your favor. But picking out a tiny target like that with cannon is really, really hard and you likely end up wasting your time & shots!

(noticeably rifleman/ snipers who were more able to pick out individual targets were not forbidden to take shots a commanders and high rankers, and its not like commanders and high ranking staff were never hit by cannon balls)


*and on the receiving end yeah there was a macho/honor element to show disdain and not showing fear, but well there's also an elan and leadership elements as well.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

And the fact of there being other British officers besides Wellington obviously figures in the British military budget but it does not necessarily figure directly into a statement about Wellington's command practice.

I'm trying to write about this in a wider context as a Code of Honor the British officer corps mostly adhered to and endured in some form until at least WW2. I believe I've been perfectly clear about this. While Wellington was an officer in the British Army there were thousands more.