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Old 08-06-2020, 08:53 AM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

Akimbo would not allow Fast-Draw with the hand holding the bow, I am sure that is physically impossible. If you want more attacks with a biw, buy Extra Attack (Multi-Strike, +20%; Single Skill Only, Bow, -20%) [25].
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:00 AM   #22
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Akimbo would not allow Fast-Draw with the hand holding the bow, I am sure that is physically impossible. If you want more attacks with a biw, buy Extra Attack (Multi-Strike, +20%; Single Skill Only, Bow, -20%) [25].
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=11

Granted, it is for reloading 2 sling at the same time instead of fast-drawing an arrow, but in, either case, I think realism is slowly crying in a corner :)

And I agree with you on extra-attack, akimbo is only there for the extra fast draw. (and only needed if you draw 3 arrow / turn anyway, with WM and HA, the second fast draw arrow per hand is at a penalty of -2/4 = .5 rounded to 0.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:36 AM   #23
Kallatari
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

The rules I've been using (which I 'm pretty sure are house rules since I couldn't find a quick reference to where I found it) is derived from the rapid attack option for attacks, by treating the "load arrow" as an attack action rather than a Ready.

By the actual rules:
With a melee weapon, you can attack twice per turn with the same weapon at a -6 penalty to both attacks using a rapid attack. This penalty is halved to -3 if you have Weapon Master (or Trained By a Master). The penalty can be reduced with the Combination technique.

With a firearm, you can attack twice - defined as splitting your RoF between two different targets - with the same weapon at a -6 penalty to both attacks. This penalty is halved to -3 if you have Gunslinger. The penalty can be reduced with the Quick-Shot technique.
Expanding on this, I use the following for bows:
With a bow, you can perform the load arrow as an attack action, thereby allowing you to load the arrow and attack in the same turn at a -6 penalty, effectively the bow's equivalent of a rapid attack. Since nocking an arrow into the bow doesn't require a skill roll, the -6 penalty is irrelevant for that action. You do get a -6 to your attack roll, however. Heroic Archer (the equivalent of Gunslinger) halves the penalty to -3. The penalty can be reduced with a "Rapid Release" technique (mechanically functions identically to Quick-Shot).
So mechanically, you can potentially attack once per turn by making a Fast-Draw (Arrow) roll (or no roll required if Skill 16+ and you have the No Nuissance Perk), then attacking at a -6 penalty to hit.

Similarly, I also allow an All-Out (Double) to be used to load the arrow and attack in a single turn at no penalty to hit, but at the cost of your defenses for the turn. Likewise, anyone with Extra Attack that applies to Bow, I allow them to use the Extra Attack to load the arrow since I treat it as an attack action rather than a ready.

This house rule basically comes down to how you interpret a Ready action vs an Attack action. I view them as mostly the same, as they are both technically a "physical action". I therefore also allow things such as All-Out (Double Ready) in my games, and let people mix/match ready/attack actions (i.e., an All-Out (Ready and Attack). It's fully house rule territory, as the actual rules are clear that they are separate maneuvers, but I would argue that it's not game-breaking to treat them similarly.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:56 AM   #24
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=11

Granted, it is for reloading 2 sling at the same time instead of fast-drawing an arrow, but in, either case, I think realism is slowly crying in a corner :)

And I agree with you on extra-attack, akimbo is only there for the extra fast draw. (and only needed if you draw 3 arrow / turn anyway, with WM and HA, the second fast draw arrow per hand is at a penalty of -2/4 = .5 rounded to 0.
The reason why it might be realistic for the sling is because reloading is the only aspect of using a sling that requires two hands. Everything with a bow requires two hands though, so Akimbo would likely not work. Try imagining how an individual could draw an arrow with the hand holding the bow.
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:09 AM   #25
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The reason why it might be realistic for the sling is because reloading is the only aspect of using a sling that requires two hands. Everything with a bow requires two hands though, so Akimbo would likely not work. Try imagining how an individual could draw an arrow with the hand holding the bow.
Akimbo would let you reload two assault rifles (provided sufficient ST to wield them as pistols) without much difficulty. It's not meant to be a realistic Perk, it's meant to let your character function like one in a First Person Shooter that has dual wielding. Maybe there are some uses of it that aren't unrealistic, but that's not really a concern - it's meant to be a highly-cinematic Perk.
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:12 AM   #26
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The reason why it might be realistic for the sling is because reloading is the only aspect of using a sling that requires two hands. Everything with a bow requires two hands though, so Akimbo would likely not work. Try imagining how an individual could draw an arrow with the hand holding the bow.
I happen to agree with you that it is wildly unrealistic, but ... it is not a realistic perk.

And there are movies and comics showing archers holding several arrows in the same hand than the bow staff so that's a fictional precedent.
Anyway, assuming HA and WM, that perk isn't even usefull unless you need 3+ arrows/turn so... it is not important either way.
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:48 AM   #27
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
with WM and HA, the second fast draw arrow per hand is at a penalty of -2/4 = .5 rounded to 0.
Huh; for some reason I thought it was -4 per iteration, but you're right, it's only -2. Whether the round down nature of HA and WM allows for a penalty to be reduced to +0 would be up to the GM; personally, I'd be inclined to have it go to -1 at best. This means, with both Advantages, the first arrow is at +0, the second (-2), third (-4) and fourth (-6) are at -1, the fifth (-8) and sixth (-10) are at -2, and so forth, although more than 4 arrows in a round would be pretty crazy (you're getting into full-auto territory).
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Old 08-06-2020, 12:33 PM   #28
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Huh; for some reason I thought it was -4 per iteration, but you're right, it's only -2. Whether the round down nature of HA and WM allows for a penalty to be reduced to +0 would be up to the GM; personally, I'd be inclined to have it go to -1 at best. This means, with both Advantages, the first arrow is at +0, the second (-2), third (-4) and fourth (-6) are at -1, the fifth (-8) and sixth (-10) are at -2, and so forth, although more than 4 arrows in a round would be pretty crazy (you're getting into full-auto territory).
I was going by martial arts p103

Quote:
Heroic Archers and Weapon Masters may halve all multiple Fast-Draw penalties for weapons covered by their advantage. If both advantages apply, divide by 4 (round in the warrior’s favor).
Also, there is a interesting debate in this thread : http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=130305

But even the worst interpretation (no akimbo and never round down below -1 - which I don't remember seeing anywhere) only require fast drawn 17 instead of 16 for up to 4 arrows... probably not a problem given the cost already involved. (HA, WM, 3 extra attack, various perks and techniques, the bow skill itself ...).
If the character have Forest Guardian 4 and DX 13 (likely for such a build), fast drawn is already at 17 for 1 cp.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:29 PM   #29
Refplace
 
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

With Sorcery you can have Single Skill Imbuements as known spells, a couple of spells are built that way.
Also an Eagle Sight spell granting Telescopic Vision for an improved Aiming bonus.
I think the rest has been sufficiently explained, HA + WM and no nuisance roll perks are solid well documented ways to go. An advantage is that the high Bow skill needed to shoot multiple times also lets you make more accurate shots if not in a hurry.
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