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Old 05-01-2018, 10:11 AM   #1
Tinman
 
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Default [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

I've just started a new DF campaign. One of my players is playing a knight. The concept he's going for is Imperial Roman Legionnaire.

The problem:
He has Weapon Master (Legion Weapons) (a small class of weapons), from the book examples I have found this means 4-5 weapons. Frex: Knightly Weapons is axe/mace, broadsword, flail, shield & lance. My thoughts on Legion Weapons is spear, shortsword, shield, sling.

My player wants to add knife to the list. I'm ok with that in concept, but I'm not sure what to charge him for that (if anything). What do you guy's think?
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:17 AM   #2
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

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Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
He has Weapon Master (Legion Weapons) (a small class of weapons), from the book examples I have found this means 4-5 weapons. [snip]

My player wants to add knife to the list. I'm ok with that in concept, but I'm not sure what to charge him for that (if anything). What do you guy's think?
The Weapon Master categories are fuzzy enough that I would say adding one more weapon isn't going to hurt. I wouldn't charge him anything. I might charge a perk to add a single other weapon that doesn't fit the category.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:27 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

Do you think knife fits as part of Legion Weapons?
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

You may want to check out the Hoplite template Kromm put together: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...67&postcount=7

I know a Hoplite isn't the same as a Roman Legionnaire, but their weapon set is similar.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

Or just tell him to carry a Long Knife, he can use it with the Shortsword skill (Long Knife is from Martial Arts, Low Tech, and DFRPG).
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Or just tell him to carry a Long Knife, he can use it with the Shortsword skill (Long Knife is from Martial Arts and DFRPG).
Weapon Master doesn't key off skill, though. Weapon Master (Katana) counts as a single weapon, for instance, but gives its benefits whether you're using Broadsword skill or Two-Handed Sword. Conversely, if long knife isn't on your list of weapons, WM won't benefit it, even if it uses the same skill as one of your other weapons.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Weapon Master doesn't key off skill, though.
Huh. I never noticed and thus have always ignored that. Actually seems kinda backwards to me that as mastery implies skill.


Anyway, in this case I'd ask the Player why they want Knife added. If it's to have a CC weapon then I'd just call Long Knife a Short Sword and not worry about it, but if it's to have a CC weapon and another easily concealed ranged weapon (that is 'faster to train' than sling), then I'd get sticky about it... and make it a Perk to add Knife to the Weapon Master list.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

I'm going to say that looks to me like a player trying to pull a fast one. You get WM at a discounted price because you agree to accept restrictions on what weapons you can use it with; to me that carries an obligation to roleplay your focus on those particular weapons. And knife really isn't a weapon of the Roman legions; they used the javelin (usually thrown, but I suppose you could treat it as a spear), the shield, and the shortsword. Really it would be more plausible to include the ballista or the onager in WM than the knife. (Though no doubt they used knives for all sorts of mundane tasks.)

Besides, there are roleplaying possibilities in the combatant who is a master of the military weapons, but is choosing to use the knife because he needs something concealable.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:49 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Huh. I never noticed and thus have always ignored that. Actually seems kinda backwards to me that as mastery implies skill.
In my group we have a house ruled version of Weapon Master: for 25 points you get "all weapons used with ___ skill (not at default)". For example, you could buy WM (2Hsword) and gain the benefits when wielding a Greatsword, Bastard Sword, Quarterstaff, etc. so long as you're using those with your 2Hsword skill, but you won't get the WM benefits if using a Bastard Sword 1-handed with Broadsword skill, or if using a Thrusting Broadsword using its 2Hsword-4 default, etc.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:54 AM   #10
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: [Weapon Master] How many weapons & what qualifies?

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Huh. I never noticed and thus have always ignored that. Actually seems kinda backwards to me that as mastery implies skill.
I don't think Weapon Master's categories are suggesting skill isn't involved. It's just acknowledging that there's more to skill and weapons than the GURPS skill system. Despite both being used with Two-Handed Sword, a katana and a zweihander are not the same, and not used identically. Weapon Master basically covers specializing in a particular weapon (or set of weapons, at higher levels), rather than boosting the techniques and tricks common to a bunch of different weapons, which is what raising levels in the weapon skill common to all of them would represent.

Of course, Gnome's suggestion works well if you do want to have Weapon Master's cinematic benefit applied to a weapon skill, suggesting cinematic training in that broad set of techniques rather than the individual weapons.
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