12-16-2022, 02:08 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
Remember, GURPS started out as a system for handling fantasy warriors smacking each other with sword and board. Other combat tends to look like an aftermarket bolt-on sometimes — and bolt-ons can be untidy.
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12-16-2022, 02:12 AM | #12 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
The DFRPG slam rules may produce more satisfying results and dedicated pouncers (not cheetahs, but other cats, sunspiders etc.) benefit more from Sumo Wrestling than Brawling. Also for pouncers, you should probably just use the jump distance as the impact velocity.
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12-16-2022, 04:32 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
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I think the problem is the knockback rule [did] already exist, and damage was defined on the basis of that, aiming at causing both parties to be knocked back a lot of the time (because pushing an opponent is much of the point, and if you are using a slam to shove him over a cliff edge you kind of want the rules to stop you if not push you back the other way), and this really doesn't work very well. Note how Shove basically abandons linking damage to knockback. That's really what Slam should do, with some different method of calculating actual damage, something based on thrust like any other unarmed attack would probably work OK.
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12-16-2022, 04:46 AM | #14 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
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12-16-2022, 08:46 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
Quote:
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12-16-2022, 09:26 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
I've always felt the primary issue with the Slam rules is that they basically assume the attacker is just running into the target, and the bonus from Brawling or Sumo Wrestling really isn't enough to differentiate between that and purposefully slamming into someone using your shoulder or similar. A proper Slam should basically hit the target with a striking surface of some flavor, which gives a bit of a boost to damage but, more importantly, markedly reduces the sort of damage the attacker suffers as a result. Slams should also typically have increased knockback relative to their amount of damage - whether that means using damage around the current value and giving it Double Knockback, or sacrificing some of the current damage and turning it into said Double Knockback (essentially making part of the damage into a Shove rather than a Strike), however, is a bit beyond me.
Is that the way DFRPG handles it? Because that would be really easy - thr-4 for Move 1, thr-2 for Move 2, thr-1 for Move 3, thr for Move 5, thr+1 for Move 7, thr+2 for Move 10, and so forth.
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12-16-2022, 12:04 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
So I'm seeing a few problems here:
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12-16-2022, 12:24 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
Very interesting discussion. I think there are two things worth noting that may affect the continued analysis here:
1. Footballs players absolutely hurt themselves all the time and probably "take damage" on nearly every tackle. Of course, they have armor that is specifically crafted to absorb crushing damage, which helps a lot. 2. As Talonos points out below, a cat pounce is not a Pounce (which is a subset of Slam)...so that's a weird rule issue to be resolved. Someone mentioned that it's really a Move followed by a jump, which means we should really look at a pounce as involving falling damage, not slam damage. And I believe cats reduce falling damage substantially via the...umm...Catfall...advantage (also prey is probably not a "hard surface" for purposes of falling damage).
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12-16-2022, 01:50 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
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Momemtum is still part of the attack but mostly used to extend reach or catch the prey with little additional damage from it. H4ence I think of it as closest to a slam but reducing velocity at the last movement before impact so more like a Move and Attack but without the wild swing cap and penalty. Be nice to see a Pyramid article or even Martial Arts supplement addressing some things.
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12-16-2022, 02:15 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Is there something about the slam rules I'm missing?
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In that case I was thinking giving them some kind of bonus since they definitely see the impact coming since they were the ones to initiate it. Like for example if Roll With Blow got a +2 bonus against Telegraphic Attack (not sure how that works) you could consider any slam you initiate to be telegraphed for your own purposes too. |
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Tags |
cheetah, impala, pounce, rules question, slam |
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