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Old 01-25-2018, 05:34 PM   #391
Steve Jackson
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

OCR work continues. It is absolutely amazing how often the OCR renders "turn" as "tum," and how hard that is to see on the screen.
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Old 01-25-2018, 05:50 PM   #392
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
OCR work continues. It is absolutely amazing how often the OCR renders "turn" as "tum," and how hard that is to see on the screen.
That's because you need the Talent "Computer Expert" not "Game Designer", otherwise you're rolling 4d6 😜
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:23 PM   #393
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Contests between characters in TFT.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
One of the more elegant opposed roll systems (in my opinion) is in Pendragon. In that game, you rolled a d20, trying to roll a skill/attribute or less to succeed. If opposed, the other figure would do the same. The winner is whichever figure (a) succeeded in rolling the skill/attribute or less and (b) rolled the *highest* number. As I recall, if you rolled the exact target number, you got a special success. Combat was an opposed roll.

I'm not sure if this approach would work with TFT (particularly mapping it to 3d6), but I thought I'd mention it.
For a d20 or other flat die roll, that's exactly equivalent to a comparison of margin of success, and may be slightly faster in play. It doesn't work for multiple die rolls, though.
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Old 01-25-2018, 07:55 PM   #394
bookworm562
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
OCR work continues. It is absolutely amazing how often the OCR renders "turn" as "tum," and how hard that is to see on the screen.
9 point type is also hard to see. The idea of having a larger type (like senior citizen large type) is an idea I would encourage. I just can't enjoy the 9 point stuff like when I was 16 years old. Or maybe even a large type edition.
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Old 01-25-2018, 07:58 PM   #395
DouglasCole
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
OCR work continues. It is absolutely amazing how often the OCR renders "turn" as "tum," and how hard that is to see on the screen.
Find: [Whole words only] tum
Replace: turn

[Replace All]

:-)

(yeah, yeah, I know. Not helpful.)
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Old 01-25-2018, 07:59 PM   #396
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Default Contests in TFT. Pendragon's system.

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
One of the more elegant opposed roll systems ... is in Pendragon. In that game, you rolled a d20, trying to roll a skill/attribute or less to succeed. If opposed, the other figure would do the same. The winner is whichever figure (a) succeeded in rolling the skill/attribute or less and (b) rolled the *highest* number. As I recall, if you rolled the exact target number, you got a special success. Combat was an opposed roll. ...
Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

EXAMPLE ONE:
Arbrem DX 12 vs Balleth DX 18.

These two guys have a log rolling contest. Since neither have Log Rolling skill, they both use their DX rolling 3vsDX.

Arbrem rolls a 11. Balleth rolls a 12. Since they both succeeded we look to see who had the higher roll. Balleth wins. This result rewards the figure with the higher DX which is good.


EXAMPLE TWO:
Arbrem DX 12 vs. Balleth DX 18.

As above but Arbrem rolls a 12 and Balleth rolls a 13. Does Arbrem's special success trump Balleth's higher roll? If so, then people with attributes closer to 10 or 11 gain an unfair advantage over those with higher attributes which is not ideal. If we say that the higher roll trumps the special success, then only the higher attributed figure can gain special successes (or tied figures).


EXAMPLE THREE:

Coval DX 18 vs. Deadalus DX 22.

As above, Coval rolls an 11 and Dadalus rolls a 10. Attribute bloat has defeated your system. Who wins is basically random. Since a key purpose of adding contests to TFT, is to handle situations with attribute bloat, I do not think this system is idea for the new TFT.

Of course, my understanding may be unclear.
Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:03 PM   #397
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Default Re: Contests in TFT. Pendragon's system.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Of course, my understanding may be unclear.
Warm regards, Rick.
I think you have it right. the 1d20 system works because there's no preference on number rolled, so the odds of rolling exactly the target number are the same in either case (5%), the odds of failing are appropriate to the skill, and it doesn't really matter how it's arranged.

With 3d6, there is a definite central tendency to roll 10-11, and so the best way to do contests like this will be margin of success. This will favor the higher skill consistently. GURPS gets this right, though I've played quite a bit with replacing contests with success-and-effect rolls.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:19 AM   #398
Skarg
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

Yeah the bell curve throws it all off. In addition to the cases Rick mentioned, the special success just plain favors the people with scores near the middle in any case.

I don't see that the system has any advantage over the GURPS Quick Contest mechanic, except in terms of simplicity for people who find rolling 3 dice or doing subtraction to be more difficult.

For those not familiar: each opponent rolls 3d6. If both succeed, the one who succeeds by more wins. (If a special success is wanted, you can naturally set it to a very low natural low and/or a very high margin of success.)

It's more or less the same mechanic though, just with three dice and subtraction rather than comparing rolls.

(I tend to prefer it because reversing the meaning of a low roll being good, and exactly making the number you want being best, feels inconsistent to me as it reverses my interpretation of what's a better or worse roll.)
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:23 PM   #399
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Yeah the bell curve throws it all off. In addition to the cases Rick mentioned, the special success just plain favors the people with scores near the middle in any case.

I don't see that the system has any advantage over the GURPS Quick Contest mechanic, except in terms of simplicity for people who find rolling 3 dice or doing subtraction to be more difficult.

For those not familiar: each opponent rolls 3d6. If both succeed, the one who succeeds by more wins. (If a special success is wanted, you can naturally set it to a very low natural low and/or a very high margin of success.)

It's more or less the same mechanic though, just with three dice and subtraction rather than comparing rolls.

(I tend to prefer it because reversing the meaning of a low roll being good, and exactly making the number you want being best, feels inconsistent to me as it reverses my interpretation of what's a better or worse roll.)
I can see the GURPS mechanic achieves a similar effect to my comparison system but appears to require more dice rolling. My system does not require both combatants to roll dice - only the active character. So if my DX14 fighter attacks a DX10 fighter, he has to roll 12 or less due to a difference comparison. The other character does not have to roll unless he later decides to attack the DX14 fighter in return, but he may decide to attack another opponent, or perform a different action entirely. How does the GURPS mechanic cope when one character is surrounded and attacked by multiple opponents; does he get to roll multiple times and perhaps score multiple hits?
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:29 PM   #400
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

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How does the GURPS mechanic cope when one character is surrounded and attacked by multiple opponents; does he get to roll multiple times and perhaps score multiple hits?
Quick Contests are not used for determining hits - that's always Attacker rolls to hit, Defender may use an active defense, and if that fails, the attacker makes an effect roll (usually damage) or imposes a condition (like grappled).

This is done once per attacker/defender in most cases.

Quick Contests are usually used for resolving things like Stealth vs Perception, or to resolve a takedown after the attack to grapple.
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