"Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by munin

The archer's range is overkill for many fantasy encounters (and almost all DF encounters).

I've found that when characters have the ability to engage at a range of half a mile or even further away, it is poor player indeed who does not take advantage of this by arranging for encounters to happen at longer range.

The scholar/wizard/archer in my fantasy campaign mostly uses Imbuements to extent his effective range and to cause mayhem to area targets. He likes to use spells to push his Observation skill score (tied to his Per) as near 30 as it will get, not to mention to ignore darkness or other 'weather' conditions that might limit his engagement range.

What that means is that he can pick off enemies at ranges far longer than anything those enemies can threathen him with. He operates like a modern sniper with an array of scopes and NVDs in a world where warfare and security is founded in the tacit assumption that over 300 yards or so, neither missile weapons nor spells are much threats.

If the PCs have enemies commanded by high-ranking military or civil leaders, he can kill those almost at will, simply by getting within line of sight. Given that he can use Imbuements to dispel protective magic and that he can also make it almost impossible to spot the arrow before it hits, few protections other than hiding exist. And a hiding leader is not actively leading, which means that any enemy formation is decapitated anyway in that case.

I'd say long range is the most powerful ability of that character, or indeed any character, in my campaign. Being able to wreak havoc at ranges 0-30 yds or even 0-200 yds is pretty much dime a dozen. Plenty of spellcasters or warriors can pull that off. But being able to reach out and touch someone at ranges up to three miles, well, that's pretty much exclusively work for a super-archer.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I've found that when characters have the ability to engage at a range of half a mile or even further away, it is poor player indeed who does not take advantage of this by arranging for encounters to happen at longer range.

Engagement range is limited by line of effect; if it's inside a dungeon, range longer than the longest straight hallway doesn't do much.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Engagement range is limited by line of effect; if it's inside a dungeon, range longer than the longest straight hallway doesn't do much.

Unless the only possible enemies in a campaign world live exclusively in dungeons and never leave them, that only means that characters with long-range attack modes should probably avoid getting into close-range knifefights in dungeons.

That isn't to say that it's useless to have short-range capabilities, but at the very least, combat in enclosed spaces is usually an exception in my games, not the rule. Players can, after all, choose where they go and what they do, and very few choose to have their PCs wander about in ruins waiting to run into something dangerous.

[Edeldhur]

Originally Posted by B9anders

A basic package for top cinematic archers in the 250 points range:

Super-Archer:

• Bow+2 [8]
• Fast-Draw (Arrow) [1]
• Heroic Archer [25]
• Weaponmaster (Bow) [20]
• ST+3 [30]
• Striking ST+2 [10]
• Strongbow [1]
• Signature Balanced Elven Longbow [9]
• Weapon Bond (Bow) [1]

Total: 105

For all the force multipliers you want. With fine arrows, this archer is doing 2d+6 imp of damage and shooting an arrow every round at DX+6.

Of course, you'll want to trick out your archer by making it an elf. 4 levels of Forest Guardian, 10% discount on that signature bow (and arrows) and Magery to give you the prerequisites for Imbuement 2 (Magic, Bow Only, -30%) [14] to make a Mystical Archer (save the 3rd level for later).

Then load up on imbuements like Arching Shot, Far Shot, Guided Weapon to make those impossible dual-arrow shots with no aiming through the eyes from 500 yards and and Shattershot, Dazzling Display and Ghostly Weapon for effects that are a bit more magical and versatile.

Hello B9anders,

As I was reading through your basic setup I started wondering (apologies for my inexperience) - if you have the imbuements, is it still necessary to stock so much on extra strength? Won't the imbuements make up for additional damage and effects?

Mind you I have not yet read thoroughly through Power ups 1...

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

Hello B9anders,

As I was reading through your basic setup I started wondering (apologies for my inexperience) - if you have the imbuements, is it still necessary to stock so much on extra strength? Won't the imbuements make up for additional damage and effects?

Mind you I have not yet read thoroughly through Power ups 1...

Imbuements, other than the follow-up damage imbuements, are primarily force multipliers for ST damage. As such, they work best when combined with a high base ST damage, and other force multipliers. That is, unless you use firearms to provide non-ST-based base damage.

Let's take, for example, Crippling Blow/Stupefying Blow. Without Weapon Master and with ST 11+Strong Bow, your base thrust damage is 1d, +2 for a long bow. Assume DR 4 (Mail), meaning that your penetrating damage is 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. If you penetrate (2/3 chance), your target will have to make an HT/Will roll at a penalty that goes from -0 to -2 to avoid at least a stun. Most foes will have at least a 50% chance of resisting.

Cue in Weapon Master, ST 13, Striking ST +2, Strongbow and an Elven Longbow, for effective ST 19. Your base thrust damage is 2d-1, +4 for Weapon Master, +2 for a longbow, and quality (Materials) arrows . Against the same target, not only your total damage is sure to penetrate (2d+6), but it will impose an HT/Will penalty ranging from -2 to -7. if your target doesn't drop from the damage or for the almost inevitable major wound, he is quite likely to end up stunned.

Again, like Weapon Master, in low tech games, Imbuements are an excellent ST force multiplier, making each point spent in ST much more valuable.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by B9anders

A basic package for top cinematic archers in the 250 points range:
With fine arrows, this archer is doing 2d+6 imp of damage and shooting an arrow every round at DX+6.

Now, for comparison, an innate attack build.
Innate Attack @ DX+6 [20]
4d6 Impaling Attack, increased range 2 (+20%), increased 1/2d 2 (+10%) (range 200/500), Gadget: Breakable (SM -2, -20%; DR 5, -15%; Can be Stolen, Won't Work, Contest of ST, -15%) [26]

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Now, for comparison, an innate attack build.
Innate Attack @ DX+6 [20]
4d6 Impaling Attack, increased range 2 (+20%), increased 1/2d 2 (+10%) (range 200/500), Gadget: Breakable (SM -2, -20%; DR 5, -15%; Can be Stolen, Won't Work, Contest of ST, -15%) [26]

Again, IF innate attacks are allowed, then obviously they are cheaper for raw damage. Imbuements allows for loads of trick arrows in this case, whose cost would be prohibitive for the Innate Attack archer. Just Penetrating Blow will quickly set it to favor the imbuements using archer. Combine it with Crppling/Stupefying, optionally Cutting to deal with unliving/homogeneous, etc etc and you end up with a very decent setup.

[Miles]

edit: whoops, overlooked multiple pages of discussion

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Now, for comparison, an innate attack build.
Innate Attack @ DX+6 [20]
4d6 Impaling Attack, increased range 2 (+20%), increased 1/2d 2 (+10%) (range 200/500), Gadget: Breakable (SM -2, -20%; DR 5, -15%; Can be Stolen, Won't Work, Contest of ST, -15%) [26]

Well, if you want to simulate proper, buy down accuracy for -15% for a 3-4 point discount and then don't forget Bow+6 [24].

So 47 points. But here's what you don't get as parts of your innate attack package:

ST 13 for grappling purposes, HP and encumbrance.
ST 15 for striking with all other weapons.
The ability to pick up any other bow and be only slightly reduced in efficiency.

Your innate attack guy is crippled very easily.

And yon mystical archer is only 13 points away from being a proper weapon-master with his melee weapon of choice too (skill+2[8] and 5 points for another weapon to master). I always felt the Qian Kun Ri Yue Dao was an excellent choice of exotic-cool and just enough semblance to the bow in appearance for Elven weapon masters.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Small note: Heroic Archer is 20 points, so the lens price is 100 points even, not 105.

This is very pleasing to my sense of numerical aesthetics.