07-10-2018, 03:05 AM | #101 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
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Re: New Skills
There seem to be a lot of people saying that Talents are too expensive and the costs should be reduced so Heroes can have more Talents. I don't agree with this at all. As I've said before, to me the Talent system of ITL is the key feature of TFT and shouldn't be mucked about with much, if at all.
I like the way that you are forced to make difficult choices when you generate a character and those choices will define that character from then on. It may not be exactly possible for a beginning character to have all the features of a Conan or a Fafhrd or an Elric, but I'm fine with that. There are other rule systems that allow that level of detail and I don't like any of them. I would ask that we don't change much for the new edition KS |
07-10-2018, 03:21 AM | #102 | |||||
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
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Re: New Skills
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Many GURPS ideas are good. Quote:
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However, I think that you are leading yourself mentally astray with that meme of "memory also includes training time". *** Let us say you want to be an adventurer who can fight, but also wants to do a couple of other things. For example, I want to write up a Heroic Leader who is also a Ranger. (Kinda like a simpler version of Aragorn.) These are the talents which my Ranger Prince needs: Sword, Shield, Bow, Missile Weapons, Tactics, Strategist, Charisma, Diplomacy, Horsemanship, Literacy, Courtly Graces, Naturalist, Tracking, Woodsman, Alertness, Climbing. This is 24 mIQ. Might someone want to play a prince who can fight and is a bit of a ranger? Sure! After reading Lord of the Rings, I went thru a period when I thought Aragorn was a totally cool character. I've NOT given him Expert Naturalist, Fencing, Math, Swimming, Butcher, Mimic, or a few other talents which would be useful to such a character. This is the minimum talent list I really need to represent the character I would like to play. Now arguing, that Missile Weapons REALLY does not require 30% of my total mental capacity because it represents the time to stay in practice sounds facile, but it MISSES THE POINT. I can't write up a Commander of Men, who is also a Ranger in the old TFT. In the new TFT it is even worse. Talents just take up too much memory to create many types of fun characters which exist in real life and in fiction. They are simply impossible in new TFT. This is why most long running TFT games cheat when it comes to memory and talents. Quote:
Warm regards, Rick. |
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07-10-2018, 03:56 AM | #103 | |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: New Skills
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With attributes / 2 as the limit, characters can have between 16 and 20 talents. They still have to pay for them at the normal costs but they can keep spending XP on them even after they reach the 40-point limit, so the Ranger Prince can eventually get all of the listed talents by paying the 24 required talent points and he'll still have 4 more talent slots available. |
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07-10-2018, 04:01 AM | #104 | |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: New Skills
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I'm all for keeping the starting talent points at IQ, purchasing additional talents with XP, and limiting the total number of talents a character can have. IQ can also limit which of those talents can be spells. |
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07-10-2018, 04:16 AM | #105 | ||
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: New Skills
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The rules for starting characters are the same as classic TFT and Wizard:
When you gain XP, you can purchase new talents and/or spells, subject to these limitations:
Last edited by zot; 07-10-2018 at 04:19 AM. Reason: clarification |
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07-10-2018, 04:21 AM | #106 | ||
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: New Skills
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One session per talent point seems to fast to me, considering how long it takes to buy attributes. I was thinking 3 sessions or so because players can feel like their characters are still progressing. Steve's rate of 5 sessions per talent point seemed too slow to me but maybe it isn't. Quote:
If there end up being contest rules where they could have some kind of effect, then they would actually participate in the game mechanics and they should be kept. I'm all for that, of course! |
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07-10-2018, 05:26 AM | #107 | |
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
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Re: New Skills
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Thanks Zot for the clarification! Yes, I somehow missed what Guy was saying about slots and points. (When I reread his post, it was quite clear.) However, Steve did not seem pleased by the idea of memory equals to (ST + DX + IQ)/2 so I don't think that will fly. However, if we use Guy's idea that series of talents go into the same slot, the Ranger / Prince would save 1 extra memory because the points put into Tactics and Strategy would save a slot. But Guy's points / slot idea still means that expensive talents become proportionally more valuable than 'small' talents like Horsemanship, Seamanship, Driving, Climbing, etc. But using Guy's rules (but not using the mIQ = [total attr.]/2), the Ranger Prince could be created by creating a character with ST 11, DX 14, IQ 15. (Ignoring points, the character needs 16 slots, but less one for the Tactics / Strategist saving. Further the character could eventually pick up Expert Naturalist as a bonus.) So Guy's rules actually addresses my major concern. Warm regards, Rick. |
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07-10-2018, 05:35 AM | #108 | |
Join Date: May 2018
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Re: New Skills
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If stacking professional knowledge would mean that UC V takes only one talent slot, I don't think that would be good. |
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07-10-2018, 07:21 AM | #109 |
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Re: New Skills
[QUOTE=Steve Jackson;2190262]I don't know. 32/2 = 16, and giving 16 spells to every starting wizard seems as though it breaks one of the big tradeoffs of Wizard.
If this is a major concern, then you could cap the total number of spells known at IQ, as I believe JLV suggested. But, truth be told, this issue never once came up in years of play. No starting wizard ever took 16 spells. They were too busy taking either "mandatory" (e.g. Literacy), supplemental/useful (e.g. Quarterstaff), or even quirky (e.g. Mimic) talents to flesh out their character. ST+DX+IQ/2 was simply the most elegant solution I managed to come up with for the IQ bloat problem in the RAW. It just "felt" like TFT to me and my play group. Again, I realize that everyone's preference and/or play style is going to be somewhat different. In the end though, I'm just honestly tickled that you (Steve), Guy, and a number of others are actually kicking the tires on my idea. |
07-10-2018, 07:23 AM | #110 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbia, Maryland
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Re: New Skills
I have to agree with Chris. A hallmark of this system is its quickness. Above all else, I want that to remain a feature. Being able to create an detailed NPC out of the blue, while my group argues about their next course of action, is something most systems these days lack.
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