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Old 06-03-2014, 07:59 PM   #1
Green-Neck
 
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Default [LT] Poor cattle farmers

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but my google-fu has failed me.

I'm writing a TL2 story involving villagers who live by herding.

An iron-age age farmer has $750. Cattle cost $1200 each, and goats $420.
Even an iron age famer has to be comfortably wealthy to own one cow or two goats, and Very Wealthy to own 4 cows or goats.

How should I model the herders without everyone being super rich?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

Adventuring budget and purchase price are at best tangentially related to net non-liquid wealth of the common folk.

Also, beef, until relatively modern times, has largely been a byproduct of the dairy/draft animal/fertilizer industry. Most TL2 villages would likely have a small herd of cattle owned either communally or by the landlord.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

Also, cattle are realistically of varying quality; cheap cattle would be smaller and less productive. Or people have goats.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

All good points.

Here's mine: why not give many of these people boosted Wealth levels?

Are livestock a major form of moveable wealth/wealth producing item in this culture? If so, owning healthy and productive (as opposed to the aforementioned cheap quality) livestock may fit with GURPS Wealth levels of Comfortable or higher.

Last edited by combatmedic; 06-03-2014 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

Or at least boosted assets. The ratio of assets to income in GURPS is dubious even at high tech levels and quite silly at low. Realistic asset to income ratios generally range from about 5 to 200, with the top for people who live almost exclusively off investments, and the mid to high end is typical for anyone who owns his own means of production rather than working for someone else (assets may also be offset by debts, but that doesn't mean you don't have stuff -- it just means you also have associated debts). At TL 8 average wealth/job, the ratio is $20,000/$2,600 or 7.7, which is plausible for a young person with minimal accumulated assets (typical adventurer). At TL 2 average wealth/job, the ratio is $750/$675 or 1.1, which is absurdly low.
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Last edited by Anthony; 06-03-2014 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic View Post
Are livestock a major form of moveable wealth/wealth producing item in this culture? If so, owning healthy and productive (as opposed to the aforementioned cheap quality) livestock may fit with GURPS Wealth levels of Comfortable or higher.
This is worth reiterating. In cultures ranging from the Ancient Celts to the Modern Maasai, cattle have been THE symbol of wealth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Most TL2 villages would likely have a small herd of cattle owned either communally or by the landlord.
This is also worth expanding on. Particularly, who actually owns the cattle that the herdsman tends?

In most Low Tech historical societies, the answer to that question is, "the tribe/clan," "the local feudal lord," "the herdsman's wife's male relatives," etc... Very rarely (and mostly recently) has the answer been "the herdsman himself."


And finally, I offer you a house rule: Allow your poor farmers to buy a Meta-Trait (1 Level of Points for Cash & 1 Level of Debt) for 0/Level, to pay for things like land and cattle, Debt accumulated this way need count towards the disadvantage limit.
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Old 06-03-2014, 09:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

It could also be that they actually are that rich. If they actually survive by herding rather than having it as a supplemental luxury, They're going to be wealthier than the corresponding dirt farmers.

Just saying. I can only think of two cultures that really came close to that: Arabians and inhabitants of the Asian Steppes. Both were quite nomadic, required large quantities of land, and engaged in a great deal of petty raiding.
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Old 06-03-2014, 09:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

I'd advise you to not worry about it too much. The default Wealth system is decent for adventurers, but not so good in my opinion for people with static jobs and assets. Use the What Status Gives You box as a guideline. If, for example, the average peasant farmer has half a plow team of oxen, give him that and ignore the cost.

The standard PC Wealth system just isn't made for GURPS Spreadsheets.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

In general it seems to me that the wealth/cost of living etc. rules of GURPS are one of the least genereic and universal ones in basic.



For me the "What status gives you" box is an example of something being a bit out of whack.
In GURPS status doesn't actually give you any stuff mentioned in that box.
(I'm ok with it so you can actually be a broke noble, and people don't just throw their stuff at you just to keep you rich)
If status really gives you automatically stuff to use then you have wealth.
So this box is actually - "What amount of accoutrements should I have to be considered living a certain status". *
I think that by RAW you do get those things in the box by paying for them with some other advantage or "cash"/wealth etc. acquired in game.



* The requirement of such sort of accoutrements to keep your status is rather non universal rule actually. I can imagine ascetic +status individuals in many societies with no need for them to have a fleet of land yachts and armies of concubine bodyguards to make everyone sure that they really are status worthy individuals.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: [LT] Poor cattle farmers

Quote:
Originally Posted by fifiste View Post
For me the "What status gives you" box is an example of something being a bit out of whack.
In GURPS status doesn't actually give you any stuff mentioned in that box.
(I'm ok with it so you can actually be a broke noble, and people don't just throw their stuff at you just to keep you rich)
If status really gives you automatically stuff to use then you have wealth.
So this box is actually - "What amount of accoutrements should I have to be considered living a certain status". *
I think that by RAW you do get those things in the box by paying for them with some other advantage or "cash"/wealth etc. acquired in game.
Do you perchance mean the box labeled "What Cost of Living Gets You"? BS266?

Note the substantial difference of meaning between that title and the one you gave...
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