02-10-2013, 08:11 PM | #31 | |
Computer Scientist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
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So it is not obvious to me that entities modeled as Digital Minds are obviously meant to be imperceptible to abilities modeled as Telepathy in GURPS, since there are numerous examples among fictional creations that include digital minds and telepathy of digital minds that are telepathically detectible, and I named a couple to illustrate my belief. It is equally not obvious to me why Molokh brought Telepathy into the discussion of a TS setting's internal detail, since TS doesn't have Telepathy as GURPS defines it. EDIT: Or as TS defines it, since TS is technically powered by GURPS and not restricted to GURPS rules if it has published extensions. |
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02-10-2013, 08:25 PM | #32 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
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Bill Stoddard |
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02-11-2013, 03:15 AM | #33 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
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So I'd not blame anyone for banning Empathy from TS games, or requiring the Hypersensory limitation, to maintain a sense of strict gritty realism. But a GM who's relaxed enough to allow characters whose narative function is to "get" other people, in a vague sort of way, without sweating the "how" unduly, can allow it - the same way that they can allow characters to have Luck, because their narrative function is to be important in the plot and not suffer too many dumb failures.
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02-11-2013, 03:19 AM | #34 | |
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Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
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Also, I get a feeling (indirectly confirmed by Phil Masters' post) that in this case, 'natural' seems to be used in contrast to 'supernatural', of which in TS there is none. Edit: in fact, the next sentence of Empathy explicitly enumerates spirits as representing the supernatural, which is not covered by Empathy. Last edited by vicky_molokh; 02-11-2013 at 03:42 AM. |
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02-11-2013, 03:31 AM | #35 | |
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
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02-11-2013, 03:35 AM | #36 | ||
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
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02-11-2013, 03:39 AM | #37 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
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But the question of what exactly is Possessed becomes complicated when the infomorph resides on a bladecluster, or whatever big servers are like in THS. (This also comes up when two characters with Empathy use Meld II on, say, the Pacific Ocean. But that's no longer a THS kind of situation.) |
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02-11-2013, 03:49 AM | #38 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
Fast enough to not have noticeable lag should be enough to qualify as "there" for empathy, I would think. Noticeable lag would, of course, be noticeable, but that's all you would be sure of.
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02-11-2013, 04:51 AM | #39 |
Computer Scientist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
If you guys keep using "obvious" in this circular fashion, instead of explaining how something actually follows, I will not be able to continue in the discussion with you.
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02-11-2013, 05:28 AM | #40 | |
Computer Scientist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Re: Social Engineering questions for Transhuman Space
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Let us say for example, an normal human subject of Empathy is hungry enough that the presence of readily ingestible food could be a distraction but no food happens to be nearby, and that an IQ roll will allow the person gifted with Empathy to correctly observe this passively, but someone without Empathy or other suitable traits would not be able to passively observe this. It's important for the Empathy to know because he might need to create a diversion and food might be obtainable in the short term. OK? Now, if the Empath encounters two other people that are secretly bioshells, one ridden by a Ghost and one by a SAI, what does it mean if he succeeds on his IQ rolls for passive observation? In the Ghost's case, the Ghost has a virtual stomach in its simulated body, and may feel hungry from that stomach as it did in life, if the simulation so resolves. The Ghost also has sensory input from the bioshell's actual stomach, and may feel hunger from that stomach if the bioshell hasn't been fed recently. But these two hungers don't necessarily coincide. The virtual could be slaved to the actual, and the Ghost could be equipped to supress either, since there's no way to actually feed the virtual stomach, and going through a simulated meal could be bothersome and time-consuming for the Ghost and the not-cheap hardware it runs on, and being hungry might interfere with its mission, etc. The SAI, being "made from scratch", won't have an innate hunger, and while it can observe and become familiar with the sensations of hunger from slink feeds, it would need to be given a particular directive to enter an altered state from hunger. And it can also be set to ignore hunger signals from the bioshell stomach, and so forth. And even if it feels hunger, will the feeling distract it more than any other routine biological state information? So, how do we decide who is secretly hungry enough to be distracted by food, and are they where the Empath can face them? Then we must ask why the same "people" running the same bioshells from a computer on a six-inch fiber optic length from the biocontroller are vulnerable to being read by Empathy across a yard-wide desk, but not vulnerable if the fiber to the controller runs across a yard long desk and the Empath is six inches from the shell? |
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empathy, fashion sense, indomitable, machine empathy, social engineering |
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