Dissonant Rites

[Kelly Pedersen]

Really, there's a couple of different things going on here. Simply transferring Essence, when one celestial simply says "Here, you look dry, have some.", and transfers a couple essence over, isn't particularly metaphysically problematic. I would say that the act of consciously transferring and accepting essence "cleans" it of any metaphysical taint from its source. The essence may have been generated by a demon of Saminga gunning down ten school children, but the transfer renders it "neutral" essence, with no inherent consequences for accepting it (though an archangel will probably still frown on it!).

Getting essence from a Rite, however, is different. A Rite doesn't require any conscious action by the being granting the essence - Novalis doesn't notice every time one of her angels dances for two hours, and decide to send essence, it's all automatic. Essentially, a Rite is a little channel that a Superior has etched into your soul, one that automatically recognizes a specific action and gives you some essence. As a result, essence from a Rite is always "tainted" by the source. There's no opportunity to render it "neutral" by conscious exchange.

A point to remember about Freedom, as well, is that it is, fundamentally, an Infernal Word. It may the most ambiguous Infernal Word in Hell, but it was granted by Lucifer, and that's important. As long as Lilith is holding the Word of Freedom and swearing allegiance to Hell, essence coming straight from her will hold an infernal taint antithetical to an angel's soul.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Getting essence from a Rite, however, is different. A Rite doesn't require any conscious action by the being granting the essence - Novalis doesn't notice every time one of her angels dances for two hours, and decide to send essence, it's all automatic. Essentially, a Rite is a little channel that a Superior has etched into your soul, one that automatically recognizes a specific action and gives you some essence. As a result, essence from a Rite is always "tainted" by the source. There's no opportunity to render it "neutral" by conscious exchange.

A point to remember about Freedom, as well, is that it is, fundamentally, an Infernal Word. It may the most ambiguous Infernal Word in Hell, but it was granted by Lucifer, and that's important. As long as Lilith is holding the Word of Freedom and swearing allegiance to Hell, essence coming straight from her will hold an infernal taint antithetical to an angel's soul.

Very well said overall.

A bit off-topic, but I'd like to posit that nobody ever said Lilith hadn't also earned Freedom as a divine Word. Not every Word has come from a Seraphim Council vote, after all. (But now we're talking house rules, of course.)

[tbug]

So as far as I can tell, the only rules-as-written on the topic exist for Redeemed, and there's a general consensus that the same rules should apply to all angels. Have I got that right?

Thanks again, everyone!

[JCD]

Originally Posted by tbug

So as far as I can tell, the only rules-as-written on the topic exist for Redeemed, and there's a general consensus that the same rules should apply to all angels. Have I got that right?

Thanks again, everyone!

Angelic Players Guide:

every time an Outcast uses a diabolical Rite,
he gains another note of dissonance. Princes are usually
only too willing to grant Rites to Outcasts whom they
think will use them, for exactly this reason.

So I would say yes.

[Archangel Beth]

While the APG does have numerous things I'd errata... That's not one of them. Selfish Hell-Rites are selfish Hell-Rites, and angels suck Essence from that tainted pond at their own peril.

If we're talking Lilith in particular, the GM has the option of graywashing the elegant witch-queen by making the Essence not-quite-dissonant. Or not dissonant if it's something the angel woulda done anyway. Or not dissonant on alternate Tuesdays. Or not dissonant if she was having mocha with Marc at the time. Or whatever.

But while Lilith is intentionally gray for a Princess...

That's still a selfish Hell-Rite she's offering ya there, bud. You don't want to know where that Essence's been, and you probably don't wanna be stickin' it in your mouth and soul, neither. (And even if the GM is ruling it's gray enough to be safe for angels... your character probably doesn't know that.)

[tbug]

That's pretty definitive. Thank-you. :)

This makes it pretty much a null temptation for Outcasts though. I'll go hunting for some sort of Ethereal equivalent that might look tastier.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by tbug

This makes it pretty much a null temptation for Outcasts though. I'll go hunting for some sort of Ethereal equivalent that might look tastier.

Maybe — but ethereals get most of their rites from Affinities rather than Superiors. Pagan gods can give rites, but most don't have a lot of Essence to spare, so they are loathe to do so.

[tbug]

It's been a few years since I've read the EPG. I'm not starting IN back up for a couple of months yet, so I'm still in the rereading phase. :)

[ISNorden]

Originally Posted by Jason

Maybe — but ethereals get most of their rites from Affinities rather than Superiors. Pagan gods can give rites, but most don't have a lot of Essence to spare, so they are loathe to do so.

Of course, in my campagn, Gray Celestials (and the Elders, a few Superior-strength Grays) do exist. Most Renegades and Outcasts decide to Defect ("go Gray") because they find some power in the Marches who reflects their ideals better than anyone in Heaven or Hell. A Defecting celestial's motives aren't always selfish, though. (I recently played an ex-Shedite of the Game who grew tired of God's and Lucifer's endless competition for human souls; he became a Rider of Luck, using his powers to give unaligned mortals better odds.)

To bring my post back on topic...do Gray Rites cause dissonance for non-Grays who use them? I'd say "probably, if the user isn't Renegade/Outcast"; but what about that borderline case?

[JCD]

Originally Posted by ISNorden

Of course, in my campagn, Gray Celestials (and the Elders, a few Superior-strength Grays) do exist. Most Renegades and Outcasts decide to Defect ("go Gray") because they find some power in the Marches who reflects their ideals better than anyone in Heaven or Hell. A Defecting celestial's motives aren't always selfish, though. (I recently played an ex-Shedite of the Game who grew tired of God's and Lucifer's endless competition for human souls; he became a Rider of Luck, using his powers to give unaligned mortals better odds.)

To bring my post back on topic...do Gray Rites cause dissonance for non-Grays who use them? I'd say "probably, if the user isn't Renegade/Outcast"; but what about that borderline case?

In much the same way as thumbing one's nose at no longer having to worry about one's Superior's Dissonance Conditions (Pbbbt! "I can Re-treeeaaaaat) is a specific political statement, so too would accepting Essence from a Gray rite be a middle finger pointed at one's Superior, even IF it doesn't cause Dissonance.

This means Outcast boy best be comfortable in the Marches 'cause he's likely to stay there a good long time...