Backpacks, Packframes and Other Carrying Conveniences

[scc]

Or a discussion about better ways to carry things. This subject is probably of particular importance to DF and AtE players as carrying things is important in those games.

Now A Time of War (MWRPG) has a Load Bearing Equipment which increases STR for the purposes of carrying things and from what I can see this is somewhat realistic, compare carrying something in your arms to on your back, it's a lot easier and less exhausting.

So I'm wondering what the same thing would be in GURPS? I'm thinking that to weight of items carried in those sorts of things, but by how much?

[Imion]

Try Lifting ST with Gadget Limitations.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by scc

Now A Time of War (MWRPG) has a Load Bearing Equipment which increases STR for the purposes of carrying things and from what I can see this is somewhat realistic, compare carrying something in your arms to on your back, it's a lot easier and less exhausting.

GURPS has rules for how much you can lift and carry with one hand, two hands, on your back, etc. In order to carry something on your back it must be in an appropriate container (such as a backpack) or something you can strap or sling over your back (such as carrying a body over your shoulder or a stone block with straps attached). See Lifting and Moving Things, p. B353.

If you're looking for a way to increase a characters ability to lift things, that's Lifting ST. If it's equipment that's helping with the lifting, such as an exoskeleton, then as Imion said that's Lifting ST with the Gadget limitation. Or if you want to treat it as just equipment, then it's Equipment that grants a Lifting ST bonus while worn.

[scc]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

GURPS has rules for how much you can lift and carry with one hand, two hands, on your back, etc. In order to carry something on your back it must be in an appropriate container (such as a backpack) or something you can strap or sling over your back (such as carrying a body over your shoulder or a stone block with straps attached). See Lifting and Moving Things, p. B353.

It doesn't actually have to be in a container from my reading of B353. And doesn't technically address my question, but if I take it precedent a ST10 character using using Delver's Webbing or a Backpack can carry up to 30 lbs. without hitting Light Encumbrance

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by scc

It doesn't actually have to be in a container from my reading of B353.

No, the rules don't explicitly state that, but a reasonable look at reality does. You are not going to be able to carry 30 pounds of rice in your arms unless it's in a box or bag. You may be able to sling a 30 lb bag of rice over your shoulder, but you cannot carry it on your back, hands free, unless it has straps or you place it in a backpack. That's all just common sense.

Originally Posted by scc

And doesn't technically address my question, but if I take it precedent a ST10 character using using Delver's Webbing or a Backpack can carry up to 30 lbs. without hitting Light Encumbrance

That's correct. GURPS assumes that encumbrance is based on weight. It's certainly reasonable to assess some penalties if the item you're carrying is awkward to the way you're carrying it, or require DX rolls to avoid dropping it, but it's perfectly possible for someone to carry a lot of weight in their arms without slowing them down much if at all. Similarly you can assess extra long term Fatigue if they are carrying awkward items for long periods to represent the extra effort required to do so. Still, people have been known to travel many miles carrying gas cans, water canisters, and other similar items in hands.

[Celjabba]

Rules for LBE and Backpack are in High-tech, mostly bonus to various rolls and skills and penalties for carrying stuff with improper or no gear.

[Varyon]

Encumbrance rules pretty much assume you're distributing the weight as efficiently as possible, as good load-bearing gear will do. It would probably be more realistic for weight to be increased (for purposes of determining various penalties, FP costs, etc) for not having good load-bearing gear than for it to be decreased for having such, it's just that here GURPS is erring on the side of avoiding complications that make characters less effective.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by scc

Or a discussion about better ways to carry things. This subject is probably of particular importance to DF and AtE players as carrying things is important in those games.

For most Fantasy games I would not recommend anything other than what DF does with Delver's Webbing. This is because using magic, load weights can easily be reduced.

For realistic historical, modern, or future tech games I use the rules straight out of High Tech (pg 54) with 2 additions:

1 - The quality bonus also adds to Survival (or Fishing or Weapon rolls related to hunting presuming the PC also has the related required tools stored on the LBE). Really good kit makes and hunting/surviving easier.

2 - LBE quality adds to HT rolls to mitigate Travel Fatigue*.

You might not have noticed it, but High Tech already has rules for LBE kit. However there is no weight reduction to carried gear due to LBE, instead a number of skills gain bonuses due to LBE Quality. Having worn LBE gear and knowing military types who've worn it, it sounds pretty spot on to how it's works IRL.





* I allow a Base 10** Hiking roll following a long march to lower FP loses by 1 FP per hour on a success, by 2 on a critical success. This roll is penalized by the number of hours marched/hiked. Failure and critical failure have no effect.

I added this house rule when I noticed most of my players didn't care about hiking... this gave a few more a reason to care.

You might allow this roll if the PCs are wearing properly fitted LBE gear...


** The Hiking skill is floated to a 10 to account for skill at hiking instead of general fitness.

[Rivenshield]

At higher TL's I don't see why a lightweight kinda-sorta exoskeleton wouldn't help. I defined the LBE as a skinny bipedal robot you sort of strap onto your torso and legs and walk around in, with sensor pads on the 'front' (that is, everywhere it contacts the operator) so it can feel what you're doing and move along with you. Since it's DX 12 it moves faster than you probably can, so no penalties as with the UltraTech exoskeleton, and it ought to be able to help you stay upright even at max loadouts without the benefit of the Gyrobalance system. Sonic screens in the feet mask the sound of you thomping around in it, which wouldn't be important in a warehouse, but it sure as heck would be on a battlefield.

As the name implies all it does is carry you, whatever you're wearing, and whatever you stick on the hardpoints on your back. It doesn't give you super strength or even better mobility. It *does* allow you to hump around a couple hundred pounds without getting tired. There's no reason you couldn't mount a pod with an inventory management arm on one of the hardpoints to fish things out for you, but that would require a robot sensor package that lets the onboard brain take verbal instruction, and I was trying to keep it cheap and simple.

Anyone see any reason this wouldn't work? gamewise or in RL? Heck, it might even be viable at early TL8...

https://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical...de-for-walking


Load-bearing exoskeleton (LBE) -- TL 11

Body
Harness -- 2 lbs., .04 cf, $25
Robot brain (tiny, dumb, +3 DX booster, extra ROM slots) -- .125 lbs., .0025 cf, $11.25, complexity 3, DX 12, IQ 6, 4 ROM slots
Routine Vehicle Operation 12 (legged drivetrain) -- $750, complexity 2
1 100-lb. and 2 20-lb. hard points -- 7 lbs., $14
2 rechargeable C cells -- .4 lbs., .004 cf, $40, 9000 kWs, ea. lasts 6.1 hours
Waste space -- .2035 cf
.25 cf, 2.5 sf, 15 hp

Leg (ea. of 2)
.2 kW leg drivetrain -- 2 lbs., .04 cf, $400
1 cf sonic screen (14.4" diameter sphere) -- .0006 lbs, $.75, .002 kW
Waste space -- .0044 cf
.05 cf, 1 sf, 6 hp

Total: .315 cf, 4.5 sf

Structure: extra-heavy, very cheap, robotic -- 27 lbs., $450
Armor: 80 DR expensive composites -- 14.4 lbs., $216

Surface features
Surface sensors on front (.75 sf) -- $225

Cost: $2492.75
Maintenance interval: 400 hours

Weight: 54.93 lbs. +180 lb. operator and up to 225 lbs. body armor, weapons, and stores
HT: 12 (max. 460 lbs./.23 tons loadout; recommended 340 lbs./.17 tons)

w/recommended 105-lb. loadout
Ground speed: 9 mph
Surface pressure: moderate
Offroad speed: 6 mph

At maximum loadout
Ground speed: 7 mph
Surface pressure: high
Offroad speed: 3 mph