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Old 09-11-2013, 12:10 PM   #11
Rocket Man
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Default Re: What if... Yves was destroyed?

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Originally Posted by Whitelaughter View Post
Yves' dissonance conditions prevent his Servitors from moving anyone towards their Fate - but a lot of creates will have the Fate of "be horribly soul-killed".

I don't know that I would agree. Fates and Destinies have to be part of a conscious choice on the part of the character; simply dying in a horrible manner is not a Fate. A suicide can be a Fate, being murdered usually isn't ... although the circumstances that led to that murder may be a Fate!

To use an example that came up in one campaign: if a child is abducted, brutalized and murdered, he or she has clearly met a horrible end. But being abducted and murdered is not a Fate because it's not something the child chose. (Which also avoids the moral problem of a brutalized child going to Hell because of its abuse, by the way; you can't force Heaven or Hell on someone.)

I forget if it's core or in the FAQs, but it's mentioned somewhere that for a demon, the Destiny is always to Redeem and for an angel, the Fate is always to Fall.
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:30 PM   #12
fwcain
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Default Re: What if... Yves was destroyed?

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Originally Posted by Rocket Man View Post
I forget if it's core or in the FAQs, but it's mentioned somewhere that for a demon, the Destiny is always to Redeem and for an angel, the Fate is always to Fall.
For Destiny and Fate above, I believe you should replace the prefaces "the" with "a". ;-)

As in, for demons, they each have a Destiny of "to Redeem" and for angels, they each have a Fate of "to Fall". They can still have additional, more specific (i.e. more personalized individual) Destinies and Fates...

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Old 09-11-2013, 03:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: What if... Yves was destroyed?

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Originally Posted by fwcain View Post
For Destiny and Fate above, I believe you should replace the prefaces "the" with "a". ;-)

As in, for demons, they each have a Destiny of "to Redeem" and for angels, they each have a Fate of "to Fall". They can still have additional, more specific (i.e. more personalized individual) Destinies and Fates...

Franklin
I like that, and that makes sense.

Incidentally, is there any celestial in canonical In Nomine that yo-yoed? Meaning, an angel that Fell, Redeemed, and then Fell again, or a demon that Redeemed, Fell, and then Redeemed again?
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: What if... Yves was destroyed?

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Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
I like that, and that makes sense.

Incidentally, is there any celestial in canonical In Nomine that yo-yoed? Meaning, an angel that Fell, Redeemed, and then Fell again, or a demon that Redeemed, Fell, and then Redeemed again?
I'm not aware of any.

A Celestial who Redeemed, Fell, and Redeemed again would have a difficult time finding an Archangel to carry out the second Redemption. The only one I can think of who might do it is Novalis.

And a Celestial who Fell, redeemed, and Fell again wouldn't be trusted by any of the Princes - they'd be wondering how much he told Heaven after the last go-round. Lilith might take in such a yo-yo, but it would be very expensive.

None of this applies of the Celestial was ordered to yo-yo, of course ... but that's a rather gray campaign option.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: What if... Yves was destroyed?

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I'm not aware of any.

A Celestial who Redeemed, Fell, and Redeemed again would have a difficult time finding an Archangel to carry out the second Redemption. The only one I can think of who might do it is Novalis.

And a Celestial who Fell, redeemed, and Fell again wouldn't be trusted by any of the Princes - they'd be wondering how much he told Heaven after the last go-round. Lilith might take in such a yo-yo, but it would be very expensive.

None of this applies of the Celestial was ordered to yo-yo, of course ... but that's a rather gray campaign option.
Good point. Incidentally, I could see Blandine also considering it.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: What if... Yves was destroyed?

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Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
I'm not aware of any.

A Celestial who Redeemed, Fell, and Redeemed again would have a difficult time finding an Archangel to carry out the second Redemption. The only one I can think of who might do it is Novalis.

And a Celestial who Fell, redeemed, and Fell again wouldn't be trusted by any of the Princes - they'd be wondering how much he told Heaven after the last go-round. Lilith might take in such a yo-yo, but it would be very expensive.

None of this applies of the Celestial was ordered to yo-yo, of course ... but that's a rather gray campaign option.
I'm also thinking Janus. The obligatory Impudite of Theft who redeems to the wind and then gets trapped by Vapulan plot-device will shackles...
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