Reference screen

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by JLV

Designer Edition Ogre was like the second highest grossing game-related Kickstarter in history when it finished back in 2012. So apparently there IS a market for the kind of game he originally envisioned in the 1970's and 80's. At least at Kickstarter. I also note that he is still producing new Ogre material now, six years later. So maybe going big is okay?

If Melee had been $29.95 instead of $2.95, I and my friends would probably never would have bought it, tried it, and played it. That's about a dozen people buying all the TFT material that came out because I was able to afford $2.95 as a 17 year old, and still gave it a bit of thought after talking to the clerk a bit.

This is my point. Allow the basic set to be well-done and inexpensive, let people try it, value the components and game play, then sell them advanced booklets, materials, and adventures of the same high quality at higher prices.

[JLV]

Clearly we have another failure to communicate. I'm talking about ITL, not basic Melee and Wizard (which is what you're talking about). The original scheme for ITL, way back when, was a big box, with lots of stuff. I think Steve should go for that on his ITL kickstarter. (BTW, the subject line here is "Reference Screen" -- clearly not an item that would appear in basic Melee or Wizard.

The price-points for Basic Melee and Wizard have already been established at $14.95 each for the newest editions -- which is just about what they cost back in 1977 and 1978 when inflation is factored in. So I think your point is already won with regard to them.

[Jim Kane]

Gentlemen, unless and until Melee and Wizard gain measurable traction in the marketplace, we may only see what equates to a privately-funded and privately-printed limited re-issue of the full TFT system via a Kickstarter for the long-term loyalists.

My personal vision and concern is focused on "Where we are going" after-that-fact - that is where the joy and adventure lay in wait; IF we can get there.

This is a rare opportunity to not only see this thing delivered in accordance with the original intent and vision, but moreover, to flourish and expand itself to the ultimate potential within the marketplace - a reality which was denied under the captaincy of HT.

I for one do not relish the potential idea of seeing a dear friend "die twice", so to speak.

Therefore, I would be interested to learn how many NEW devotee's OGRE acquired and how deeply it's market penetration and saturation levels are.

That data may give us a reasonable indicator with which to roughly gauge the potential future of our beloved TFT in this new millennium marketplace.

JK

[GlennDoren]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

Gentlemen, unless and until Melee and Wizard gain measurable traction in the marketplace, we may only see what equates to a privately-funded and privately-printed limited re-issue of the full TFT system via a Kickstarter for the long-term loyalists.

My personal vision and concern is focused on "Where we are going" after-that-fact - that is where the joy and adventure lay in wait; IF we can get there.

This is a rare opportunity to not only see this thing delivered in accordance with the original intent and vision, but moreover, to flourish and expand itself to the ultimate potential within the marketplace - a reality which was denied under the captaincy of HT.

I for one do not relish the potential idea of seeing a dear friend "die twice", so to speak.

Therefore, I would be interested to learn how many NEW devotee's OGRE acquired and how deeply it's market penetration and saturation levels are.

That data may give us a reasonable indicator with which to roughly gauge the potential future of our beloved TFT in this new millennium marketplace.

JK

Agreed completely--which is why I'm sure I'm not the only one here nervous about how much "cleanup/updating" is being done to increase the probability of TFT v2.0 (well, Melee/Wizard 2.0, at this point) making it past the "friends and family" kickstarter.

I understand not wanting to pump too many resources into this until they know how well it does upon release... but if this is the only shot it gets, I really hope they're seriously considering doing "enough" (and them some) to set it up for success.

Hopefully this doesn't come off as stating the obvious... just saying: Let's make sure we're REALLY happy with it, and make the extra effort needed to give it its best chance out of the gate.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by GlennDoren

Agreed completely--which is why I'm sure I'm not the only one here nervous about how much "cleanup/updating" is being done to increase the probability of TFT v2.0 (well, Melee/Wizard 2.0, at this point) making it past the "friends and family" kickstarter.

I understand not wanting to pump too many resources into this until they know how well it does upon release... but if this is the only shot it gets, I really hope they're seriously considering doing "enough" (and them some) to set it up for success.

Hopefully this doesn't come off as stating the obvious... just saying: Let's make sure we're REALLY happy with it, and make the extra effort needed to give it its best chance out of the gate.

Exactly GLENN; and "state-away" at-will, for in business, nothing is obvious.

So here is the thing in a nut-shell:

Since we do not know what the Marketing/Promotion/and Product Support plans are - beyond the traditional: (i.e. Kick-Start, Website, Convention) - we are essentially "flying blind" in terms of having a sense of where the marketing and promotion efforts and talents are being directed and focused.

I could be way off-base here, but it seems to me - and I hope someone will straighten me out if I am in error - that many companies do the tradition things, in the traditional ways, and aimed at the traditional gaming audience, and then, hold their collective breath, and hope the orders start coming in at a rate and volume which indicates a successful entry and foothold in the market.

As things stand now, SJ GAMES offers (or did, still can't figure out the actual bottom-line disposition of Dungeon Fantasy product) two FRPG's: Dungeon Fantasy and GURPS.

So, if TFT is simply offered as the "third" system available through SJG, through the traditional marketing and promotion methods only, I will remain somewhat skeptical as to the potential for heavy market entrenchment - as there are just too many other choices available today across the board; let alone in-house.

Therefore, I am thinking exactly along your line GLENN, when you mentioned moving beyond the "friends and family" sphere. My gut is telling me that TFT not only needs to capture it's pro-rata share of the established market, but really needs to focus on farming totally NEW blood - and that, will take a creative and innovative marketing campaign operating in concert with the established "obvious" things to do, but needs to reach a whole audience of NEW folks who are not already married - or even involved with - a games system.

We already know, that unlike D&D or Pathfinder, Melee & Wizard are the perfect AND PROVEN vehicles for luring the uninitiated general public-at-large into our fold.

And THAT is where I think we will find the pot-o-gold for a re-release of TFT and secure it's future.

Thoughts?

JK