TFT: The Weight of Weapons (in kilograms)

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

Are you sure JLV? I thought we only covered Kilometers vs Miles; no?

JK

Call it "metric" versus "English" if you prefer; either way, the debate was done. The upshot is the same. At the end of the day, no one thinks it really matters in terms of the rules, and if it's important enough to you personally to worry about, then just change the terms to suit. Really, it's close enough given the game mechanics as currently written. It only really becomes important when you are considering things like encumbrances and what-not, and even then, if you just think of a Kilogram as being roughly 2 pounds and a smidge, you'll be close enough in the game. Does it really matter whether it's "2 pounds or so" or "2.204 pounds?"

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by JLV

Call it "metric" versus "English" if you prefer; either way, the debate was done. The upshot is the same. At the end of the day, no one thinks it really matters in terms of the rules, and if it's important enough to you personally to worry about, then just change the terms to suit. Really, it's close enough given the game mechanics as currently written. It only really becomes important when you are considering things like encumbrances and what-not, and even then, if you just think of a Kilogram as being roughly 2 pounds and a smidge, you'll be close enough in the game. Does it really matter whether it's "2 pounds or so" or "2.204 pounds?"

Actually it doesn't personally matter one iota to me JLV, which is why I asked in my final question: "Does this matter to anyone enough to warrant changing?"

As far as I am concerned, the Unit-of-Mass for TFT could be stated in GP's, Pounds, Kilos, Dirty Socks, whatever; because by my way of thinking, when one totals items up to check against the encumbrance values, it is the comparative numerical values which are important, not the Unit-of-Mass they are stated in.

But it is important to me to learn what others think and feel, for others opinions and thoughts on TFT help me to understand my own, and/or offer me the opportunity to re-examine my own ideas about TFT; and that is why I ask for opinions on matters where I have not offered my own.

So, even though I personally don't care which Unit-of-Mass or the ultra-accuracy of weapon-weights, that doesn't mean everyone else does; and I was interested to learn how others felt; this is why I asked to learn other's feelings on the matters, regarding the importance and relevance of GURPS-level accurate weapon-weights AND Unit-of-Mass.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know we already covered the topic at an earlier date. Apparently, I have forgotten, and only recall taking about Unit-of-Distance (Km vs Mi)

JLV, did SJ indicate what he intends to do on these two topics pf weapon-weight and Ki vs Lbs. for the re-write?

JK

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

Actually it doesn't personally matter one iota to me JLV, which is why I asked in my final question: "Does this matter to anyone enough to warrant changing?"

As far as I am concerned, the Unit-of-Mass for TFT could be stated in GP's, Pounds, Kilos, Dirty Socks, whatever; because by my way of thinking, when one totals items up to check against the encumbrance values, it is the comparative numerical values which are important, not the Unit-of-Mass they are stated in.

But it is important to me to learn what others think and feel, for others opinions and thoughts on TFT help me to understand my own, and/or offer me the opportunity to re-examine my own ideas about TFT; and that is why I ask for opinions on matters where I have not offered my own.

So, even though I personally don't care which Unit-of-Mass or the ultra-accuracy of weapon-weights, that doesn't mean everyone else does; and I was interested to learn how others felt; this is why I asked to learn other's feelings on the matters, regarding the importance and relevance of GURPS-level accurate weapon-weights AND Unit-of-Mass.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know we already covered the topic at an earlier date. Apparently, I have forgotten, and only recall taking about Unit-of-Distance (Km vs Mi)

JLV, did SJ indicate what he intends to do on these two topics pf weapon-weight and Ki vs Lbs. for the re-write?

JK

Um...sorry for the phrasing. I tend to write "stream-of-consciousness" style and wasn't directing my comment ("Does it really matter...") at anyone, especially you; but rather asking a rhetorical question to put some perspective on the issue.

Sorry if I came across like I was telling you off or something...

As I recall, Steve never really weighed in (if you'll pardon the pun) on any final decision; though he was the one who started the debate. I kind of got the impression his initial inclination was to change it to pounds and yards, but towards the end, he was leaning towards just leaving it alone since it would require extensive re-writing to make sure all the metric references were purged... It may just be a question of how much time he feels he can expend on making what is mostly a cosmetic change at this point, though that is pure speculation on my part.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by JLV

Um...sorry for the phrasing. I tend to write "stream-of-consciousness" style and wasn't directing my comment ("Does it really matter...") at anyone, especially you; but rather asking a rhetorical question to put some perspective on the issue...Sorry if I came across like I was telling you off or something...

Oh not at all JLV, you are fine my TFT-Brother; besides, that's why I put the questions on the table that I do... so you WILL tell me something! LOL!

JK

[David Bofinger]

Carrying a sword generally implies you're carrying some associated equipment. A scabbard, a whetstone, a rag you use to clean off blood, etc. I don't want the nuisance of keeping track of these things so it makes sense that their weight is folded into the weight of the weapon for encumbrance purposes. Scabbards at least can weigh a significant fraction of the weight of the swords they protect. On this basis TFT weights start to look more reasonable.

[JLV]

Which is a pretty good point, after all. Fact of the matter is, I see that some games nowadays treat encumbrance more like a computer game with "slots" that can accept gear which are themselves limited by various factors.

Frankly, even something that simplistic would work just fine for me -- and it blocks those players (and we've all known them) who want to list every last lucky rabbit's foot and bent half-farthing they are carrying on an equipment list as big as your typical backyard swimming pool...

[larsdangly]

Runequest (at least the original version I play) used a 'slot' sort of mechanic for encumbrance. It is pretty good.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

Carrying a sword generally implies you're carrying some associated equipment. A scabbard, a whetstone, a rag you use to clean off blood, etc. I don't want the nuisance of keeping track of these things so it makes sense that their weight is folded into the weight of the weapon for encumbrance purposes. Scabbards at least can weigh a significant fraction of the weight of the swords they protect. On this basis TFT weights start to look more reasonable.

I am with DAVID B on this - extremely well-stated - point.

JK

[ak_aramis]

The scabbard, yes, presume with weight. Most carrying a blade will have it in a scabbard. But many rapiers were carried in much lighter carriers - with the blade exposed. (Many rapiers weren't sharpened except near the tip, tho' many were sharpened full length. Depends upon which school, and when.)

Belt? No. the actual belt is part of the armor or outfit, not the weapon. Plus, multiple weapons go upon it. Including it raises a "why can't I reduce the weight for a second weapon" query.

Whetstone? probably not carried most of the time. Especially for townsmen, guards, etc, for whom their carry is near their dwelling. And a workable one can be a couple ounces for travel. In a pinch, any smooth faced rock will do.

Rags? nope. Use dead foes clothing for that. Or fur. Or rinse and swing dry.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

Carrying a sword generally implies you're carrying some associated equipment. A scabbard, a whetstone, a rag you use to clean off blood, etc. I don't want the nuisance of keeping track of these things so it makes sense that their weight is folded into the weight of the weapon for encumbrance purposes. Scabbards at least can weigh a significant fraction of the weight of the swords they protect. On this basis TFT weights start to look more reasonable.

What do you tell a player who says he's keeping that stuff in a saddlebag or on a wagon, and wants to know how much less it encumbers him?