O R'lyeh card and the meaning of "just-played"

[Dr. Trintignant]

I had just gone looking for trouble, and shortly thereafter, another player threw down a +3 combat bonus to the monster. A short time (less than 2.6 seconds) after that, another player threw down the "O R'lyeh" card, which says this:
"Play to cancel any just-drawn or just-played card. That card is discarded and has no effect; if it had just been drawn, a replacement is drawn. Usable once only."

He intended the card to cancel the monster I had played, but to me "just-played" means only the most recent card that had been played--in this case, the combat bonus card. Thoughts?

- Dr. Trintignant

[RevBob]

You are correct. Once the +3 enhancer was played, the original monster is no longer "just-played."

[RL]

I agree. You snooze, you lose.

[MDevil]

I disagree... this is really a more subtle question since the time difference here is really negligible. The question is more properly framed as : what is the precedence of two cards being played at the same time. If 5 people play cards simultaneously, how do you determine precedence? Some of these little nitpicking details become really important and Munchkin is left intentionally vague on a lot of these issues.

So, imagine a situation similar to the above where someone plays 5 cards simultaneously... are they all "just played"? I think so. I think you have to determine "just played" much more loosely than you seem to think here since "just" is a very relative term. After all, it doesn't say the "last" card played.

[DenSpb]

If you have no better arguments - just roll a die, treat card with lowest roll as first.

[Dr. Trintignant]

Sounds like a good rule, though in this case there was no question as to which card was first--the first player's hand was off the card before the second card was even in motion.

I guess there's a question as to what constitutes simultaneity in game terms, but it seems to me like this is only a problem when two or more cards hit the table such that no one has a fast enough eye to see what hit first.

- Dr. Trintignant

[Arukoto]

If you go into just played and take the normal reaction time of 2,6 sec just played would be a card among the resent, if 5 cards are played at the same time and I would say after the normal reaction time of 2,6 sec it would be the last card, but if before this time it was played you could choose (or roll a die)
If the card(s) that was played on the monster was played after each other(negative-positive-negative...) and then it was played, they could choose from the last couple of cards(2-3) played on the monster

I would say "just-played" is over on a monster card from the door deck is when the munchkin is either ready for combat, flee or using cards then combat/flee, when the munchkin has chosen what he want to do it is to late to play it, if not just the monster card is there and 2,6 sec of intervention time is over
If from his hand, it would be 2,6 sec and he would either kill it or another(or himself) would cast a card on it...

My meaning in short, monster card is just played until they are dead or until cards are played on it

hmmm if someone played restraining order on a munchkin that played a card that mess up his fight it would be a perfect time to help messing things up by playing the O'Rlyeh card to remove the order:)

[Bazz]

i think you should be able to play o r'lyeh until you'd have to undo another action - i.e. once the munchkin has accepted help in combat, it's too late, once anyone has played an enhancer on the monster, or item on the combat, it's too late. once the munchkin has discarded any cards to power abilities, or paid costs of facing the monster, it's too late. Once someone has wandered in another monster, it's too late. but if all they've done is add up their poiwer total, or played a GUAL on themselves, played an enhancer on their mook etc, i.e., if they've only done things which could have been done regardless of whether the original card had been played, i'd still allow it.

[Arukoto]

perhaps@bazz: if he could have done that before he played a monster from his hand, or before he opened a new door, then that is when he should have played it, not as he has entered combat
but he could play those type of cards(that you mentioned that would not...) but when O R'lyeh is played it is among those cards and even the monster that can be taken out

on the other hand he is aiding the battle making it better or worse for one side of the battle, thus interfering...

"just" is a place in time, it is relatively fast after something happened,
like in:
I just noticed I got punched in the shoulder, before I felt any pain I punched him back, and then 2,6 sec after he punched me I noticed the pain...
well perhaps exaggerating a bit,
but when you just have thrown a grenade, then you can't stop and go look if the splint is out while it is in the air, the O R'lyeh card takes the granade out...

or perhaps it would be like I just posted this post, but I what was in it before any others saw it, then just is the time before most others are aware of it...

[Vaddius]

Originally Posted by Dr. Trintignant

I had just gone looking for trouble, and shortly thereafter, another player threw down a +3 combat bonus to the monster. A short time (less than 2.6 seconds) after that, another player threw down the "O R'lyeh" card, which says this:
"Play to cancel any just-drawn or just-played card. That card is discarded and has no effect; if it had just been drawn, a replacement is drawn. Usable once only."

He intended the card to cancel the monster I had played, but to me "just-played" means only the most recent card that had been played--in this case, the combat bonus card. Thoughts?

- Dr. Trintignant

I was "just" looking over this thread... (pun).

Anyway, I was wondering when you first said you had just gone looking for trouble and a short time later they played an enhancer on the monster. how much time had passed at that point? Then a short time later (you say less than 2.6 seconds MORE time had passed) someone plays the O R'lyeh card. So at that point how much time had passed since the monster card was played?

This is how I would have handled that particular situation.... Even though less than 2.6 sec passed since the enhancer was placed, it is likely that more than 2.6 seconds had passed since the monster was played. So, as others here have pointed out, I would say by that point, the enhancer card would be the one effected.

However, if there were multiple cards played at the same time (within the 2.6 sec limit), then I'd say the person playing the O R'lyeh card would be able to choose which card it was effecting.

If no cards other than the monster had been played yet, then there wouldn't be an argument.

The phrasing on the card (and the implied humor of it) seem to indicate that the intent of the card is to have someone slam it down right as someone is playing their card just to give them a slap in the face O R'lyeh style and then taunt them with an "Oh really?!" as you do it. (Or maybe that's just how we do it...) Sometimes people forget they have it though, so we usually just say it effects the most recent card played to keep it simple.