How would you build a fighter-mage?

[Shrale]

Since I'm new to G4e, I'd say make the equivalent character in D&D-land
(ballpark him) then see if you can make him in GURPS.

Don't be surprised if you surpass the 200 point barrier with ease.

A lot of D&D spells just give you lots of things by default, versus GURPS
seems to cost out every little thing.

I'd love to see a Multiple Image/Mirror Image spell in GURPS (or more likely the
power). I'd like to see what that works out to be point-cost-wise.

I certainly like the idea of Body of Metal too.

My instinct would be to discard GURPS prerequistes rules (ignore them except
those that specify a certain level of Magery) and let the players have at it.

Then you can see where things are from there (and what needs adjusting).

>

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by nanoboy

Also consider those necessities like Stealth, too. That's a funny skill, since it's usually one guy who fails at Stealth, and it's never fun to be that guy.

QFT.

Having the Stealth skill is NEVER bad.

After 23+ yrs of playing and GMing GURPS I think I would have a point in Stealth even if I was writing up a parapeligic. The repercussions of failure with it are usually pretty Steep and everyone really does need to have it for it to work for the party. (Scout has more Mage has less but there will always be times you dont want to be noticed).

Dave

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by nanoboy

....... High Pain Threshold is a waste for this character, though. It's not that useful. Just take a turn of All-Out Defense after you get hit. Rapid Healing is not that great in most fantasy campaigns, either, since healing is usually available. If it's not, though, I'd take it. Fit would be very useful.....

You cant take all out defend and cast. For spells that take more than one second, its a problem.
Fit is Very useful due to the FP cost for Magery and Combat.
Rapid Healing, fair enough, depends on the campaign.

Originally Posted by nanoboy

That's bad. More ST is needed, at least ST+3. The IQ is okay, and I can see a case made for more or less. The DX is too much. It's a waste of points, unless the character is going to be taking a lot of extra DX skills. He can't afford that. Instead, take those points and spend them on increasing the core skills. Also, higher HT is essential for a fighter. HT 12 is a minimum for any fighter, half mage or not. It's also useful for providing a couple more FP.

ST 11 buys him access to most weapons (including Axe) and although more ST and HT would be great, with only 200 points, Im willing to give a little ground in those areas for a Higher DX/IQ character hoping that the +1 I get from Fit helps soften the blow.

Originally Posted by nanoboy

I wouldn't spend points on a shield for a fighter-mage. Spend all on a two-handed weapon skill. You'll be happier, since you'll have a higher skill and parry. Secondary weapons and hand to hand are always good, though.

In the same vein that swing damage is not to be trifled with, you cannot underestimate the power of DB. +1 DB is 8 points of weapon skill to get +1 to parry. There are of course ways around this (Love the staff's +2 to parry), but more parry's lead to more penalties. DId I mention that the DB applies to ALL active defenses? Even Dodge!

Originally Posted by nanoboy

Also consider those necessities like Stealth, too. That's a funny skill, since it's usually one guy who fails at Stealth, and it's never fun to be that guy.

I suggested holding out 10 points for those round-out skills like stealth, merchant, cooking, languages etc. and AMEN it sucks to be the guy who fails his stealth roll!

Nymdok

Blame: n. That which is assigned right after damage and right before treasure.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by GnomesofZurich

This is a subject that has sort of stumped me, using the standard GURPS magical system. How would one go about building an effective, D&D-style fighter-mage in a default fantasy campaign (150 points, -50 or -75 disadvantage limit, maximum Magery 3)?

The answer may very well be, "You don't", and that it is cost-prohibitive at that point total. A fighter-mage really wants high ST (combat damage), high DX (combat skills, dodge), high IQ (spells), high HT (to provide FT for spells), as well as some level of Magery, possibly Combat Reflexes, etc.

Building the optimized IQ+Magery=17+ wizard to give all spells at 15 or more doesn't leave many points to flesh out the fighter side, and building an optimized fighter with high ST/DX/HT, Combat Reflexes, High Pain Threshold and combat skills in the 14-16 range is also pricey.

Probably the answer is to build a character with modest ST/DX/IQ (all in the 11-13 range), Magery 1 or 2 (likely One College or otherwise limited), select a combat skill to raise to 14+, with one or more secondary combat skills at lower levels, and select one or two spells to get into the 14-15 range, with all prerequisites bought at the 1 point level.

How would you go about doing it?

My answer is: Not that hard. On 150 pts I'd build a IQ 13 M3 mage and have 20 pts from the lowered IQ set aside for providing the fighter part some heavier damage.

This means that I'll only have spells which get the bonuses inherent to a 15 skill if I choose to put two or more points into that spell. It's not an automatic now. However it's not that bad. Many of the spells a wizard knows are basically prerequistes and in actual play don't see much use. Explosive Fireball yes. Fireball yes. Shape Fire? Create Fire? ignite Fire? Maybe, maybe, and unlikely respectively. Make that a triple No. I can invest earned CP to raise the first two later.

And while I can envision situations where Ignite fire at 15 could be useful, I have NEVER encounted them in play.

Recap. IQ 13 [60] Magery 3 [35] Reserved [20] 115 CP
150 pts, -70/-75 (default on GCA) 225 CP available.
Remaining: 110 pts.

DX 12 [40] ST 11 [10] HT 11 [10] Basic move +0.25 [5] 65 pts
Remaining: 55

You can make a trained fighter who knows a good number of spells on Fifty Five points IF you do not go hog heavy on advantages.

My suggestion: 13 CP on Fighting skills, 7 on background and social skills the character should have picked up growing up wherever he or she grew up and 35 on spells or advantages.

As to the reserve points. If you make a Johnny one weapon type fighter, that is, throw away the basic D&D image of a guy who is 'proficient' in the use of half a gazillion weapons, get his skill up to at least DX +2 and use the 20 pt reserve to buy Weapon Master (single weapon). Assuming it's one that doesn't get unbalanced on use or other complications that shouldn't come up, the halving of the rapid strike penalty and the bonus damage WM gives the 10 ST character some serious hurt capacity.

Otherwsie consider this: Strking ST +3 (+4 if the GM ignores the rule recomendation of capping it at +3)

Tank up on disads and quirks to pay for it all and equip the character as you see fit.

If you did not go the Johnny one weapon route:

You should have a guy who hits pretty well and as hard as a ST 14 Fighter
and has a decent selection of spells to throw.

If you did go the Johnny route: you don't do the occasinal devasting damage a swung attack does 1d weapon modified +2 won't beat box cars on the 2d swing attack the other guy gets, but you can hit twice around with a -3 on your skill with +2 damage. And access to cinematic skills later on if you could not afford them at creation.

Nor will you be the wizard you could have been. But on the whole it's a viable PC.

[Shrale]

Originally Posted by Shrale

I certainly like the idea of Body of Metal too.

>

Hmmm, might have spoke too soon. 175 points. Jeez. Take the spell
then, but screw the power. Lots of things I wouldn't bother with,
such as "Doesn't breathe" and so on.

I'd be more interested in "Feels No Pain" and "Can imitate a robot
or golem" rather than "Pressure Support" or "Vacuum Support".
I have a funny feeling the spell/power wouldn't cover those without
another 100 or 200 points.

>

[Captain-Captain]

BTW: Limitations on Magery works well here. Bard types get a 50% reduction on M1, M2 and M3 for musical magery. 15 extra points, some of which really ought to go to musical skills. ;)

But not All of them. 8 pts gets you one skill at IQ +1 or two at IQ. 7 more points can really shore up a grimoire or make a fighter nastier. +1 to the skill and 3 pts into a technique of choice.

[Langy]

Fit is Very useful due to the FP cost for Magery and Combat.

Fit's bonus to FP use doesn't actually apply to FP spent on magic, though. Still worth it for the bonus to death checks, however.

BTW: Limitations on Magery works well here. Bard types get a 50% reduction on M1, M2 and M3 for musical magery. 15 extra points, some of which really ought to go to musical skills. ;)

Yeah, but musical magery is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly uncool. It's probably the least-cool thing you can do with a character.

On the other hand, you can make your Magery based upon an item. I made a 200-point Fighter/Mage a while back who had magery along with some Gadget restrictions (Breakable: 16-25 DR, Unrepairable, SM-3 -35%, Can be Stolen -30%) because he had a Sword that was a focus for Magery. This was even better, since my GM let me spend a Perk to let him enchant his Sword with the Staff spell - your mileage may vary on that.

He wound up being incredibly lethal in combat, but relatively easy to kill. Didn't have enough points to take much punishment - he only had HT10 and was lacking Combat Reflexes, Fit, etc. If I remade him today, I'd drop either his ST of 13 or his DX of 12 in order to increase his survivability.

Still, I wouldn't want to make a 150-point Fighter/Mage. You'll be very strapped for points there.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Langy

Fit's bonus to FP use doesn't actually apply to FP spent on magic, though. Still worth it for the bonus to death checks, however.

Yeah, but the fatigue you recover sooner from your earlier Flurry of Blows can be spent on spells.

[Shrale]

Originally Posted by Langy

On the other hand, you can make your Magery based upon an item. I made a 200-point Fighter/Mage a while back who had magery along with some Gadget restrictions (Breakable: 16-25 DR, Unrepairable, SM-3 -35%, Can be Stolen -30%) because he had a Sword that was a focus for Magery. This was even better, since my GM let me spend a Perk to let him enchant his Sword with the Staff spell - your mileage may vary on that.

Nice I like. I'll have to remember this.

Originally Posted by Langy

He wound up being incredibly lethal in combat, but relatively easy to kill. Didn't have enough points to take much punishment - he only had HT10 and was lacking Combat Reflexes, Fit, etc. If I remade him today, I'd drop either his ST of 13 or his DX of 12 in order to increase his survivability.

That's sorta what I'm aiming at, opponents that have a good amount of
ability but aren't so high that are invulnerable.

More please on actual steps to increase survivability :)

>

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

You know, that would actually make a great DF template.

Well, I'm working on one for my games, and I'm thinking at pitching the idea to SJGames, if I somehow manage to dare sending it to Pyramid. I have it mostly written, I just need to give it a pre-editing, to polish it a bit, and to adapt it to SJG's WYSIWYG template and style guide (I fear that it would be more work than it's worth to edit it, given that I'm not a native English speaker).

I envision the template as the arcane equivalent of the paladin. It's a wizard/knight mix, with extra flavour thrown in.