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Old 07-16-2010, 01:05 PM   #1
b-dog
 
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Default [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

I am running a DF game where the PCs have been turned into ghosts as suggested by the DF Summoners. Well, I am wondering about demons and Elder Things, the demons and Elder Things are material and do not seem to have any way to attack the PCs or to defend themselves from them since the PCs are ghosts. I am following the rules as written but I am looking to modify them to suit the campaign. What sorts of advantages should the demons get to help them be able to guard the treasure in the dungeon? And the same question is for the Mind Warper? What kinds of powers/advantages should they be given to give the PCs a challenge?

In my opinion, demons should be somewhat spiritual even when they manifest in the material world. But if anyone has any better ideas then please post. I would also be interested in any ideas for psi beings too. Thanks.
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

Just give them mind effecting powers or Innate Attacks with Effects Substantial.
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

Just give the demons some sort of weapon that can hit insubstantial creatures, or access to spells that affect spirits. Demons shouldn't automatically get to affect insubstantial beings as they aren't the same thing. Besides, having PC's as ghosts operating on the material plane should be extremely limiting to the PC's already. Most of the spirit templates severely restricts just how the spirit can interact with the physical world (you know, where all the dungeon goodies are) and even those limited interations tend to be fatiguing.
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

A magic ring that lets a Demon rip a ghost to sushi. $14,238.

A Chaos spell cast by an Elder Thing which alters a ghost and makes the physical plane deadly (1 pt per turn damage) to them: 200 hours of Study time.

A mind controlled Ghost attacking the other members of the party... Priceless.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

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Originally Posted by cccwebs View Post
Demons shouldn't automatically get to affect insubstantial beings as they aren't the same thing.
Yes, I keep thinking of the old school AD&D demons that were total bad-asses and so I think of demons as being able to have no trouble chopping a lowly ghost to pieces. The Type V demon which was the AD&D version of the DF peshkali had supernatural spell-like powers, could create magic gates and also gate in other demons should it have trouble and it also had psionics. They may be a little to tough for DF PCs but still it just seems wrong that a ghost that could affect substantial could beat up a peshkali because the ghost would not be hittable by the peshkali.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

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Originally Posted by b-dog View Post
Yes, I keep thinking of the old school AD&D demons that were total bad-asses and so I think of demons as being able to have no trouble chopping a lowly ghost to pieces. The Type V demon which was the AD&D version of the DF peshkali had supernatural spell-like powers, could create magic gates and also gate in other demons should it have trouble and it also had psionics. They may be a little to tough for DF PCs but still it just seems wrong that a ghost that could affect substantial could beat up a peshkali because the ghost would not be hittable by the peshkali.
So make the demon a wizard that can cast Repel Spirits, See Invisible, and Materialize. Or a Mystic Knight with whichever Imbuement gives your attack Affects Insubstantial.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
So make the demon a wizard that can cast Repel Spirits, See Invisible, and Materialize. Or a Mystic Knight with whichever Imbuement gives your attack Affects Insubstantial.
I understand that I can add advantages to the demon to make it so that it can attack ghosts and other spirits but with the default assumption it just strikes me as odd that a demon would be afraid of a ghost. It seems that the demon would be able to sense "souls" by default and due to its spiritual nature could easily chop down a mere ghost.
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

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Originally Posted by b-dog View Post
I understand that I can add advantages to the demon to make it so that it can attack ghosts and other spirits but with the default assumption it just strikes me as odd that a demon would be afraid of a ghost.
I seriously doubt that stat block was written with Ghost PCs in mind.
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It seems that the demon would be able to sense "souls" by default and due to its spiritual nature could easily chop down a mere ghost.
If you feel that way, do it.
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

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Originally Posted by b-dog View Post
I understand that I can add advantages to the demon to make it so that it can attack ghosts and other spirits but with the default assumption it just strikes me as odd that a demon would be afraid of a ghost. It seems that the demon would be able to sense "souls" by default and due to its spiritual nature could easily chop down a mere ghost.
Isn't the answer, as always, to make your demons to fit your expectations, rather than using unsatisfactory ones out of a book?
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: [DF] Summoners: ghost PCs vs. demons and Elder Things

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Isn't the answer, as always, to make your demons to fit your expectations, rather than using unsatisfactory ones out of a book?
Yes, I was just saying that it because I played AD&D I have a certain idea of demons as being total baddies. I can change them no problem to suit my needs but it is just a paradigm shift to have demons not be able to beat down a ghost.
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