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Old 11-06-2017, 03:11 PM   #1
ericthered
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Default Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

I'm building a race of shapeshifters that can achieve a lot of different forms, but they have to really study to do so. For example, if they want to turn into a fish they need to study how to build the muscles of a swimmer properly, and they also need to study how to build gills properly. Its not a one to one advantage to skill relationship, but its reasonably close. The skill involved is probably a specialty of physiology.

so what does it cost? I'm actually not sure of the best way to build it. It could be alternate form, with instead of skills you have individual alternate forms. The problem with that is that a single skill will let you do many similar forms, and you can mix and match: the shape of a fish and gills can be combined, as could sensory adjustments with a quadruped form.

I could use modular abilities, but then how do you properly limit them to "requires a different physiology roll for each form". Morph is similar: it will do what I want, once I figure out how to properly price the limitation that you need to know a skill for each aspect.

An extreme version would be to base it on the magic system, particuarly the shapshifting and partial shapeshifting spells. My objection there is FP cost, as well as some of the odder limitations built into the spells. Also, I'm trying to do magic as powers, not powers as magic. I may have to just settle for some sort of realm-magic based "good enough".
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

Just put requires skill roll on Morph?
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

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Just put requires skill roll on Morph?
That was my first thought. That doesn't quite do what I want, because it makes the advantage dependent on a single skill. I want it dependent on many skills, and that's a significant disadvantage beyond just requiring a skill roll.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
That was my first thought. That doesn't quite do what I want, because it makes the advantage dependent on a single skill. I want it dependent on many skills, and that's a significant disadvantage beyond just requiring a skill roll.
I don't think that I quite understand then. Besides Physiology what other rolls would they need to make?
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

Sounds like a something between a required skill roll and a form of Preparation Required. OTTOMH, I'd peg it around -20%. That feels like it might be a little generous, but it should be more of a restriction than Requires IQ roll.
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Old 11-06-2017, 05:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I don't think that I quite understand then. Besides Physiology what other rolls would they need to make?
It sounds like he's suggesting a required specialty for each form.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
That was my first thought. That doesn't quite do what I want, because it makes the advantage dependent on a single skill. I want it dependent on many skills, and that's a significant disadvantage beyond just requiring a skill roll.
Uh... Physiology is already specialised per species. That sounds like exactly what you want: Requires Physiology Roll, -10% — they can shapeshift into an appropriate species with a roll against that species' Physiology speciality (or an appropriate default from a similar species' speciality). The Powers framework does not generally give huge changes in cost for depending on one, many, or zero skills/techniques/specialities.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

It sounds almost like separate Advantages, could you build it as Alternate Ability with a hefty penalty for One Form Only and then add an extra Shapeshift option for each additional form at 20% of the full cost?
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
It sounds like he's suggesting a required specialty for each form.
I have never really thought about how narrow Physiology is; specialization by species seems excessive. "Defaults between species (if any) are up to the GM" is especially unhelpful. Bio-Tech doesn't appear to have anything useful here either.

I would definitely be pretty generous with defaults for highly conserved structures and close clades. I think this ability would require a more rigorous approach to default here in general, based on taxonomic relationships (mainly because they are easier to arbitrate than a cladogram). Species within the same genus shouldn't really have any penalties to physiology. Maybe -2 for a species in a different Family and -4 for a different Class?

Last edited by sir_pudding; 11-07-2017 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: Shapeshifting that Requires Knowlege

I'd probably eyeball defaults based on conserved gross anatomy.
Genetically, we're close siblings to chimps and gorillas, but anatomically, we have numerous structural differences.
I'm sure many birds of similar diet and size, but different families, probably have far more in common.
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