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Old 09-01-2019, 01:16 PM   #11
Shostak
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip Legacy Edition expansions

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
e.g. Better rules for cover, opportunity fire, pop-up attacks, suppression, diving for cover, burst of fire, approaching a corner, etc.
Honestly, when you want that level of crunch, just go to GURPS. It is extensively playtested and works wonderfully.
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:40 PM   #12
Steve Plambeck
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip Legacy Edition expansions

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Honestly, when you want that level of crunch, just go to GURPS. It is extensively playtested and works wonderfully.
But I still think some type of opportunity fire rule is needed in TFT, and that doesn't mean going whole hog for all the other gritty details. I want to play TFT, not another game, even if TFT needs a couple of tweaks here and there.

Consider a row of stationary obstacles, each one a hex wide, and spaced a number of hexes apart that is less than or equal to most figures' MAs. Like trees, columns, or even a picket fence if the pickets are wide enough.

Put a stationary archer on one side, and for the target a running one hex figure on the other. If the target starts behind the left tree, which completely obstructs the archer's shot, and then runs left to right to each of the next trees on a series of movement turns, when does the archer get a shot at him? The archer can't take the shot unless standing still or moving one hex only on a turn's movement phase, but the target flits from being hidden by one tree or column to being hidden behind the next tree or column. Yet on each of the archer's subsequent turns to act, there's no unobstructed target, even though that target comes into view sprinting 4, 5, even up to 10 hexes at a time between turns to act. But the normal turn sequence doesn't allow the archer to fire when the target is in view because that's always during the movement phase.

Yeah, it's an exploit built into the turn sequence. The target isn't breaking any rules, but the result is highly unrealistic. Allowing opportunity fire on movement phases solves the problem, but it also requires rules for proper DX adjustments depending on the interval between the trees and how fast the target is moving. If the trees are only one hex apart and the target is moving at MA 8, that's a very hard shot because the target is only visible for a split second at a time between each obstruction. If the trees are 8 hexes apart, then the shot should be as easy to roll a hit on as if no trees were there, because the target is now in view for almost the length of the whole turn just as if they were running in the open. But you have to have rules, different DX adjustments, for each of the possible distances and speeds between. A lot of adjustments equates to gritty, no adjustments equates to entirely unrealistic, but the right number and degree of adjustments means the porridge is just right.

Personally I feel there's really very few "holes" worth worrying about in the TFT rules, so only a few house rules are needed for cases like this, so few that the game isn't transformed into GURPS or any other system. But the few we need, we really do need.
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:00 PM   #13
Senturian
 
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Default Re: The Fantasy Trip Legacy Edition expansions

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
But I still think some type of opportunity fire rule is needed in TFT, and that doesn't mean going whole hog for all the other gritty details. I want to play TFT, not another game, even if TFT needs a couple of tweaks here and there.

Consider a row of stationary obstacles, each one a hex wide, and spaced a number of hexes apart that is less than or equal to most figures' MAs. Like trees, columns, or even a picket fence if the pickets are wide enough.

Put a stationary archer on one side, and for the target a running one hex figure on the other. If the target starts behind the left tree, which completely obstructs the archer's shot, and then runs left to right to each of the next trees on a series of movement turns, when does the archer get a shot at him? The archer can't take the shot unless standing still or moving one hex only on a turn's movement phase, but the target flits from being hidden by one tree or column to being hidden behind the next tree or column. Yet on each of the archer's subsequent turns to act, there's no unobstructed target, even though that target comes into view sprinting 4, 5, even up to 10 hexes at a time between turns to act. But the normal turn sequence doesn't allow the archer to fire when the target is in view because that's always during the movement phase.

Allowing opportunity fire on movement phases solves the problem, but it also requires rules for proper DX adjustments depending on the interval between the trees and how fast the target is moving. If the trees are only one hex apart and the target is moving at MA 8, that's a very hard shot because the target is only visible for a split second at a time between each obstruction. If the trees are 8 hexes apart, then the shot should be as easy to roll a hit on as if no trees were there, because the target is now in view for almost the length of the whole turn just as if they were running in the open. But you have to have rules, different DX adjustments, for each of the possible distances and speeds between. A lot of adjustments equates to gritty, no adjustments equates to entirely unrealistic, but the right number and degree of adjustments means the porridge is just right.
let's add in whether the target is running across the line of sight (Skeet shooting), towards or away.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:45 AM   #14
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip Legacy Edition expansions

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Originally Posted by Senturian View Post
let's add in whether the target is running across the line of sight (Skeet shooting), towards or away.
Hmmm... running away means the target gets smaller the longer the shooter waits to fire (you could say that's already adjusted for by another -1 DX for every two megahexes the target has receded). And conversely a target running towards the shooter is growing bigger and getting easier to hit at the same rate -- but wait too long, and they could be attacking you if you don't bring them down with the first shot. So the rules do already offer something to cover both of those circumstances.

An entirely different system would be one where options would all get classified as "Actions" and "Reactions". "Actions" could only be executed on the turn to act as determined by adjDX. "Reactions" would be all things that could be taken out of turn, as warranted by circumstances. Then put "Releasing a ready arrow", or "Firing a Missile Weapon" under the list of available "Reactions". Of course some options could be classified both ways -- an archer could hold her shot until her turn by adjDX. Dodge and Defend could be classified as "Reactions" as well, since many (but not all) agree you don't have to declare using those options until the instant you come under attack, and you're free to change them if you didn't move too far to do so.

I picture a wizard facing a party armed with spears all 3 to 5 hexes away. The wizard is poised, holding his hand in the air, and he's just announced loudly that if anyone moves he's going to cast a Megahex Sleep spell on the lot of them. Okay, let's start the Turn. Players roll for initiative. The wizard loses the roll. The spearmen elect to move first, and so all charge attack. Strictly following the RAW, the wizard turns into a pin-cushion. The GM might allow that the wizard got off his Sleep spell, but the GM doesn't have to. No system is perfect :)
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