12-28-2009, 12:22 PM | #41 | |||||||||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Spain —Europe
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
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However, when you put "pacifist" things like Buddhism or Christianity into an action and fantastic "frame" as Dungeon Fantasy for creating characters ready to kick butts, you're forced to distort them. That leads to the assimilation of misinformation, and to spreading it. (Some nuances regarding chivalric orders would be suitable here, but I don't want to expand about that now) My personal stance here is to make fictional religions and worlds for Dungeon Fantasy, so you avoid to denaturalize things and imagination flies with more freedom. In your case, I would do a template borrowing cool ideas from Buddhism and other sources, for instance (it happens every day), but I would never call that a Buddhist character. Or instead maybe you could try to play in the Yrth/Banestorm setting . . . This is my personal view. And no, I don't agree with DF 7: Clerics concerning the use of real world gods' names for Dungeon Fantasy characters; in fact, Shiva is mentioned and is one of the worst examples because that god is too many things. I see the point in the ideas of that box but the drawbacks too. Anyway since you really want to try this, you have another figure to look at from the point of view of Buddhism as Holy Warrior: Guesar de Ling. Quote:
But however, that is how it works, always, in all spiritual ways, independiently of the potential drawbacks. Buddhism isn't different. It doesn't need to be in the way people would like it to be. It is as it is, independiently people finds that comfortable, dangerous, or not. A guru isn't like an university teacher, but a completely different thing. A guru is, in some senses, "the supreme deity" for the disciple while this is still unable to know his own Self by himself (btw, the Self in the ultimate sense is the same than Buddhist Paranirvana). A master is a kind of external projection, and the disciple needs to know this beforehand for not falling into idolatry which is one of the many forms of ignorance and keeps the ego untouched, like the duality between principle and effect, god and creature, Buddha and ego. The guru is there for helping and not for abusing of the disciple. Additionally a true master is egoless, he doesn't get anything at exchange. A guru is pure compassion, even if his methods can be harsh sometimes. He stands for something that isn't really human, but transcendent. And that sort of "deity status" is only provisory, a means to an end. Some methods require a minimum of physical relationship with the master but this doesn't changes anything. When the disciple, through his own achievements, has no need of that external help and with the supernatural element already bestowed to him, then he can/must be left alone, but always thanks to the previous steps. Such previous steps can be followed quickly or slowly. They can be more apparent or less apparent, but they are needed in all cases. Also you can check Power Investiture. In real life that is obtained through a guru, despite the advantage is not very deep in a rules-wise way, for saying the least, regarding the Awakening. Of course, adherence to a guru is dangerous if he's not a true guru, and this happens a lot. Specially today, but not exclusively. Anyhow, lots of things in life are dangerous, and because that there were warnings about false masters. Nobody can to achieve Buddahood without a true master, without the empowered means, only by reading books or in company of deluded people. Many times the supernatural element is handed down in non-obvious ways, making people to think that no transmission happened, leading to errors about the nature of spirituality. Also, to fact of pertaining to the Shanga, to be an ordained Buddhist monk or nun, . . . doesn't grants one the benefit of the supernatural element. Something more is required. Buddhism is barely known by contemporary people, despite they talk and talk about it. Buddhism as it is presented to westerners and as they understand it, is only a sophisticated and subtle forgery. "Broad-minded", "prejudiceless" people angers if someone try to speak about Buddhism properly, because this spiritual tradition, subtly twisted and distorted, has been turned into an important part of modern thinking. Quote:
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__________________
"Let's face it: for some people, roleplaying is a serious challenge, a life-or-death struggle." J. M. Caparula/Scott Haring "Physics is basic but inessential." Wolfgang Smith My G+ Last edited by demonsbane; 12-29-2009 at 07:50 AM. Reason: typo |
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12-28-2009, 01:59 PM | #42 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Athens, GA
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
Dude, are you Nichiren or something? WTF?
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Also, consider this, from Thich Nhat Hanh Quote:
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As far as I can tell, you have received some kind of pat on the head by a grand high lama somewhere, and you think that this means that you have perfect understanding that can be obtained no other way. That's so wrong it's actually creepy. Please be so kind as to send me your pic, so that should I see you walking down the road toward me, I can hit you with a stick. [note to mods, this is a Buddhist koan in joke, not a threat of violence] |
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12-28-2009, 06:54 PM | #43 | |||||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Spain —Europe
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
I'm talking about some things related to the Parampara, or Buddhist lineages. You don't understand the passages you're quoting are suitable only once you're stablished in the path, and no one is really stablished in the path without receiving the empowered means.
You're talking and quoting without understanding. Quote:
Just another example: Muhammad in Islam is also regarded as just another person, but inside the spiritual path, deeper than faith, things aren't so simple. The same, again, is applicable to Buddhism. An avâtara can start a spiritual line without he being worshipped as a God nor as any other thing. Buddha did that. Others did the same, too. All that you're quoting is extremely basic but correct, however I can't say the same about your understanding of it. The point is once you're really stablished in the path, with the working means, you must follow the teachings. Just don't quote fragments of them in wrong contexts. That turns them into sources of ignorance. Also, you can apply such lines to yourself for psychological results. The problem is such elemental lines are easily misunderstood, so you can hurt yourself trying to play with them. Quote:
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Returning to the interests of the OP, I'm waiting for these lenses you were speaking in an earlier post. Now I'm not informative but curious.
__________________
"Let's face it: for some people, roleplaying is a serious challenge, a life-or-death struggle." J. M. Caparula/Scott Haring "Physics is basic but inessential." Wolfgang Smith My G+ |
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12-28-2009, 07:05 PM | #44 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
Yeah. A religious argument. That's real useful.
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12-28-2009, 07:16 PM | #45 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Spain —Europe
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
I'll be waiting for the "Buddhist cleric and holy warrior" Dungeon Fantasy lenses.
__________________
"Let's face it: for some people, roleplaying is a serious challenge, a life-or-death struggle." J. M. Caparula/Scott Haring "Physics is basic but inessential." Wolfgang Smith My G+ |
12-29-2009, 01:04 AM | #46 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyďv, Ukraine
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
Well, you didn't think that only youngster religions get all the fun, did you? ;)
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12-29-2009, 01:07 AM | #47 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyďv, Ukraine
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
You know, the whole argument reminds me of The Master and Margaret quote where Yeshua, referring to the bible, exclaims 'They are writing it down wrong. I did not say anything of it'.
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12-29-2009, 01:21 AM | #48 | |
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
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Medusa = Snake headed woman whose gaze turns you to stone? Chimera = Mix of lion goat and serpent? I think names are sort of interesting, demon lords and devil in AD&D had names like Orcus, Demogorgon, Asmodeus, Beelezbub, Geryon, ect. I think these names added something and I think that having a DF monk of Buddhism who uses his enlightenment to kick butt and take treasure is fine with me. |
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12-29-2009, 01:32 AM | #49 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
Both Buddhist monks and Christian priests have in fact taken the field of battle in reality even without objective physical demons out there to fight. This is of course an object lesson in why it's a good idea to avoid real religions in gaming if there's any chance at all that you'll run into an adherent or opponent of said religions.
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12-29-2009, 02:49 AM | #50 | |||||||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Athens, GA
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Re: [DF] Help with creating a Buddhist cleric and holy warrior
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Nevertheless, you seem to regard yourself as some kind of Buddhist - I notice that you didn't say whether or not you are Nichiren. And, according to Rev. Hahn, whom I parrot without understanding: Quote:
Last edited by tantric; 12-29-2009 at 07:30 AM. |
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