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Old 06-05-2018, 03:31 AM   #1
2097
 
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Default GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

One way to use GURPS sourcebooks, worldbooks, bestiaries and adventures is with other game systems. It's supposed to be universal after all.

Here is one way to use those books for D&D. For OSR style D&D (like Stars Without Number) and for 5e. (The crunchier games like 3e, 4e and PF1 need their own method.)

Saves, and general abilities:
ST-> Str
IQ -> Int, Wis
DX -> Dex
HT -> Con, Cha

HP: take HT straight up. Some books, like the original Creatures of the Night, have two numbers, use the biggest number.

AC: If they have an armor that the D&D version you are using (I have the armor list glued to the inside of DM screen) use it, otherwise, for ascending use DX+PD. (For 5e, if that number ends up higher than 22, just put 22.) For descending, subtract from 20. (For ACKS, subtract 10.)

Attacks: take the combat skill and subtract ten. That's the tohit bonus.

XP: for 5e you can use the tables in the DMG but let's say most normal GURPS humans converted this way are 25 xp.

Philosophy: I want stats because I want to have some committed numbers. Trying to be get the exact same outcomes as you would in GURPS is not possible anyway. Like if I prep a dungeon and I jot down like ANY stats, that's fine. (And calculate the right XP for it.) That's what's there. The interesting part of the session isn't the game balance. If the players shoot the baron of Harkness, the interesting part isn't whether they can, it's the consequences and fallout.

Also, also, when converting monsters or NPCs, another way to do it is to instead use the stats from a similar monster or NPC for the edition you're using. There are plenty of dog- or wolf-like creatures to use for stats for the Brackish Hounds from CotN for example, or in 5e you could use the Noble statblock for the nobles of Harkness.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

[QUOTE=2097;2180518]
Here is one way to use those books for D&D. For OSR style D&D (like Stars Without Number) and for 5e. (The crunchier games like 3e, 4e and PF1 need their own method.)
Quote:
Saves, and general abilities:
ST-> Str
IQ -> Int, Wis
DX -> Dex
HT -> Con, Cha
This... doesn't really work.
Quote:
HP: take HT straight up. Some books, like the original Creatures of the Night, have two numbers, use the biggest number.
This doesn't work at all; they'd have ridiculously low HP for their intended threat levels.
Quote:
AC: If they have an armor that the D&D version you are using (I have the armor list glued to the inside of DM screen) use it, otherwise, for ascending use DX+PD. (For 5e, if that number ends up higher than 22, just put 22.) For descending, subtract from 20. (For ACKS, subtract 10.)
GURPS 4e doesn't use PD. Also, I'm not familiar with 5e, but that'll give you really wonky AC values for any older stuff, or things based on it.

Quote:
Attacks: take the combat skill and subtract ten. That's the tohit bonus.
This is the closest to a usable conversion here.



Quote:
Also, also, when converting monsters or NPCs, another way to do it is to instead use the stats from a similar monster or NPC for the edition you're using. There are plenty of dog- or wolf-like creatures to use for stats for the Brackish Hounds from CotN for example, or in 5e you could use the Noble statblock for the nobles of Harkness.
This is a much better plan; add special abilities to the template based on whatever powers they have in GURPS
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

Thank you for replying so quickly!

The stats… the first couple of NPCs I looked at had their stats so close to 10 so I thought at first I’d, instead of the normal 5e way of getting the ability mod by subtracting 10 and halving, I would just subtract 10 straight up. So a DX of 13 would mean a Dex mod of +3. But then I saw some more NPCs with a wider spread, so I thought I’ll just move the score over straight up. That also works better with B/X and derived games like SWN, Lab Lord etc.

If by “don’t work” you mean that HT isn’t really equivalent to Cha etc? Sure. But to just quickly grab numbers somewhere. If you see them have Strong Will or Low Perception etc, adjust accordingly.♥

But I think you’re right, for 5e it’s better to “do the subtract 10 for the mod” thing. Even with the wider spread. B/X doesn’t really care about the scores in the same way.

The threat level… yeah, they become very squishy with so low HP (although some creatures in CotN have hundreds of HP) but the threat level and XP is set accordingly. I didn’t really see these NPCs as necessarily combat challenges, but someone you might struggle with socially (like a ruler of a realm), or in contests of skill such as jousting or hacking, or dependents that you might have to protect against monsters or agents.

That said, I also have this for scaling up NPCs to higher level (higher class level, not directly corresponding to threat level). (It’s my policy to do this before play starts but that can be a quick note, like “add Warrior level 5”, “add Rogue level 12” or whatever.) Usually in our own D&D so far, fighting other people isn’t the problem, fighting monsters are, or fighting hordes of people, are. In 5e it’ll just say “the innkeep is a Commoner” and you can then look up the commoner stat block. Whereas in GURPS the innkeep in Harkness has stats. That are about equivalent to a 2HD, 25xp Guard.

The AC… you’re right. That part of the conversion wasn’t good at all. I think the best thing to do is to just have the armor list for your setting available. In 5e, light armor lets you add your dex bonus.

Adding abilities to existing D&D monsters… that’s awesome! I’ve done that. Once I used “gargoyle” stats for the Chillers from CotN but with some of the gargoyle abilities removed and chiller stats added. I didn’t get to see how it worked in play because the PCs never fought them. (Instead they disguised themselves as their rivals from theatre school to discredit them with the village elders. It was an awesome session. The Chillers problem was never addressed. Sandbox ftw.) And obv with the Brackish Hound I added their bleeding ability etc.
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:30 AM   #4
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Also, I'm not familiar with 5e, but that'll give you really wonky AC values for any older stuff, or things based on it.
In 5e, to-hit bonuses scale more slowly than in 3e and 4e. A little slower than fighters in the old basic Rules Cyclopedia but faster than the other classes there.

Also in 5e high AC is harder to hit and low is easier, unlike the RC. But that's just a straight forward number's flip
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:21 AM   #5
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2097 View Post
One way to use GURPS sourcebooks, worldbooks, bestiaries and adventures is with other game systems. It's supposed to be universal after all.
The universal in the name refers to GURPS's ability to run games in any genre, not that its rules can be converted to any other game system.

Quote:
Here is one way to use those books for D&D. For OSR style D&D (like Stars Without Number) and for 5e. (The crunchier games like 3e, 4e and PF1 need their own method.)
I'm mostly familiar with the older style D&D, so I'll focus on that.

Quote:
Saves, and general abilities:
ST-> Str
IQ -> Int, Wis
DX -> Dex
HT -> Con, Cha
It's not that simple. GURPS Strength, Intelligence, and Dexterity pretty much equal the D&D abilities of the same name, and GURPS Health is approximately the same thing as D&D Constitution (but you'll want to include advantages and disadvantages like Fit/Very Fit, Hard (Easy) to Subdue), but D&D Charisma is a combination of all the different areas of GURPS that give you bonuses or penalties to reaction rolls, like the Charisma advantage, physical appearance, Status, Rank, Odious Personal Habits, Voice, influence skills, and everything else that adjusts reaction rolls. D&D Wisdom is a combination of GURPS Common Sense, Will, and other abilities of mental fortitude.

Quote:
HP: take HT straight up. Some books, like the original Creatures of the Night, have two numbers, use the biggest number.
No way. D&D Hit Points are far more abstract than GURPS Hit Points, which are purely a measure of structural integrity. D&D Hit Points are a combination of GURPS Hit Points, Easy/Hard to Kill, Luck and variations thereof, Combat Reflexes, and so on.

Quote:
AC: If they have an armor that the D&D version you are using (I have the armor list glued to the inside of DM screen) use it, otherwise, for ascending use DX+PD. (For 5e, if that number ends up higher than 22, just put 22.) For descending, subtract from 20. (For ACKS, subtract 10.)
There is no mathematical relationship between defensive ability in GURPS and D&D. Simply use the D&D Armor Class of the given armor, regardless of what its GURPS statistics are.

Quote:
Attacks: take the combat skill and subtract ten. That's the tohit bonus.
No way! D&D attacks use a linear probability; GURPS skills use a bell curve and a huge host of modifiers. The best you can do is approximate. An Orc in the original D&D rules, for instance, is a 1 HD creature that fights about as well as a Veteran, who is an ordinary soldier that has seen war. Such a soldier in GURPS would have fighting skills of about 14. So there you have an approximation of the conversion of the fighting skills of an orc. Do similar things for other monsters.

Quote:
XP: for 5e you can use the tables in the DMG but let's say most normal GURPS humans converted this way are 25 xp.
Don't convert between D&D Experience Points and GURPS Character Points. Simply eyeball GURPS "power level" (p. B487) to D&D levels. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy starting characters of 250 points are like 5th level or so D&D characters (at least, the older forms of D&D).

Ultimately, the way to convert between GURPS and another system is to rely on GURPS's plain-language bias. If something is concrete, like equipment, just switch to the other system's stats. If something is game-mechanical, convert using the IDEAS of what it represents, rather than using the numbers.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

You can't simply take stats from D&D and convert to GURPS nor can you go the other way. It won't give the results your after anyway.

As others have said. you have to take the feel of the creature/NPC you have and convert the feel of them.

---

But just for the sake of fun, if you really, really wanted to convert stats from GURPS to D&D I would go with:

GURPS Stats -> D&D Stat
ST -> Str score
DX-10 -> Dex modifier.
HT-10 -> Con modifier (+1 for Fit, +2 for Very Fit).
IQ-10 -> Int modifier.
(Will-10 + Per-10)/2 -> Wis modifier.
(IQ-10)/2 + Each level of Appearance, Voice, Charisma, Smooth operator talent -> Cha modifier.]


AC, is based on equipment and stats. Not GURPS attributes.


GURPS Talents should pass over as Skill-Feats.
D&D Skills are based on class and race and can never match GURPS anyway. But as an NPC guideline. Any skill you have 4-8 pts in should be "trained".

As for a GURPS characters level. Kromm has once said "25 cp per lvl if you only focus on combat abilities". 50 cp per level if you include socio-economic traits such as wealth, allies, reputation and so on.

Last edited by Maz; 06-05-2018 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

Lets try Dai Blackthorne from Basic p.310.
I am going to ignore his "Warp" ability as thats impossible to probably translate to D&D.


Level: 4 Rogue.

Str: 8
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 17
Cha: 12

Trained in: Stealth, Acrobatics, Athletics, Sleight of Hand, Thieves Tools.
Feats: Alert. (Its possible there is a feat in another 5e book to represent his Perfect Balance, but I only have the core book, instead I game him training in Acrobatics)

Last edited by Maz; 06-05-2018 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:28 AM   #8
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Lets try Dai Blackthorne from Basic p.310.
I am going to ignore his "Warp" ability as thats impossible to probably translate to D&D.
Eladrin in 4e teleport 25' per turn as a regular move action - their movement is 6 (walking) or 5 (teleporting). D&D4e has teleport spells, and I think at least some monsters have a Reaction that lets them blink out of the way of attacks. I don't know 5e very well but I bet that kind of stuff has been kept.
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

Conversion GURPS <-> D20 is never going to have hard fast rules. It's an art form and very different playground. AC almost never translates between the two as an example. Other rules that D20 has on various creature effects and traits are sometimes rolled into GURPS in simpler terms.

One has to understand the intent of creatures and convert based on that, and often times GURPS has very setting based ideas of how templates should be that would differ in another setting.

I mean, the mapping of attributes is almost a spider web in GURPS to D20.

For example:
Quote:
ST-> Str
IQ -> Int, Wis
DX -> Dex
HT -> Con, Cha
Is actually closer to (And not exactly) this:

Quote:
ST -> STR, CON
IQ -> INT, WIS, CHA
DX ->DEX, Dodge AC
HT -> CON, CHA, STR, DEX, Dodge AC
If you were to draw lines it'd look like a mess. Especially since D20 doesn't concern itself too much with realism in any way.

I mean your attacks like slams, touches, natural attacks, attacks of opportunity, it all becomes a mess for a fast rule.

Understanding the intent of monsters is the only real way to map them.
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: GURPS monsters/NPCs in D&D

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Eladrin in 4e teleport 25' per turn as a regular move action - their movement is 6 (walking) or 5 (teleporting). D&D4e has teleport spells, and I think at least some monsters have a Reaction that lets them blink out of the way of attacks. I don't know 5e very well but I bet that kind of stuff has been kept.
Your right, of course. In my mind "warp" became "jumper". I don't know why. And I thought "That's like a 7th level plane shift spell" and just removed it. Also I like my Dai Blackthorne 3e style, with no exotic abilities thank you very much. ;)
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