Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lord

TFT doesn't use a lot of words. Perhaps the armor/shield list could benefit from something like the "Other Names for Weapons" section in ITL p.111.

I stand by my assertion that calling a buckler a small shield is the same as calling a sabre a cutlass.

Yes, adding alternate names for shields to this list would be nice.

[hcobb]

The big advantage of the main gauche over any other option is that you're still armed when a wolf goes into HTH on you.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

Thus I still stand by this summary:

MG rules state:
- both attack: Primary weapon strikes using AdjDX; MG strikes at AdjDX-4; MG parry -1 damage (only vs 1 handed melee attacks)
- primary weapon attack: Primary weapon strikes using AdjDX; MG parries -1 (only vs 1 handed melee attacks) <<< no reason to ever do this, since attacking with both is better. This is not a problem
- defend: Defends and MG parries -1 (only vs 1 handed melee attacks)

Two Weapons skill states:
- both attack: Primary weapon strikes using AdjDX; Secondary weapon strikes at AdjDX-4; No parry.
- primary weapon attack: Primary weapon strikes using AdjDX; Secondary weapon parries -2 (only vs melee attacks)
- defend: Defends and both weapons parry for a net -4 (only vs melee attacks)

Using MG with Two Weapons/Fencing skill:
- both attack: Primary weapon strikes using AdjDX; Secondary weapon (MG) strikes at AdjDX-4; MG parry -1 damage (only vs 1 handed melee attacks)
- primary weapon attack: Primary weapon strikes using AdjDX; Secondary weapon (MG) parries -2 (only vs melee attacks)
- defend: Defends and both weapons parry for a net -4 (only vs melee attacks)

Thanks for this summary.

I was thinking of things a bit differently when it comes to Defend and Parry.

Option 1: Defend. Attacker rolls five dice if the defender is a Fencer. No hits stopped unless secondary is M-G in which case one hit stopped.

Option 2: Parry. Attacker rolls four dice and four hits are stopped.

I read it this way because the parry with both weapons option is described as something the player can do "on any turn he attacks" and Defend is not an attack. If you're just using the two-weapons skill, then Defend only yields four dice to-hit and so is inferior to Parry.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

The big advantage of the main gauche over any other option is that you're still armed when a wolf goes into HTH on you.

And the disadvantage is that it doesn't apply to missile weapons.

[larsdangly]

Re. the various types of shields, in the end the question is what one should do about it in the game. Given the structure of TFT, you only have a few choices:
1) assign bucklers an armor score of 0, meaning they are a pointless extravagance.
2) add a new category very small shield and shift everything up 1 point (so we have a 4 point shield)
3) don't worry about it, and just accept that 'small' might mean anything from 'not really that small' to 'very small'.

[TippetsTX]

Or 4) Fix how shields are presented in TFT (proper shield use should prevent the hit entirely, not stop a few points of damage).

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lord

TFT doesn't use a lot of words. Perhaps the armor/shield list could benefit from something like the "Other Names for Weapons" section in ITL p.111.

I stand by my assertion that calling a buckler a small shield is the same as calling a sabre a cutlass.

Ok, I'll stop using the word buckler at all. What the word "buckler" means was never relevant even to the side-topic where it was mentioned.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by phiwum

... I read it this way because the parry with both weapons option is described as something the player can do "on any turn he attacks" and Defend is not an attack. If you're just using the two-weapons skill, then Defend only yields four dice to-hit and so is inferior to Parry.

The "on any turn he attacks" wording is pretty unclear though preceding a list where option (c) doesn't involve any attacks.

It seems to me like it's also not well-defined whether you even Defend and pick option (c)? (i.e. Maybe not - maybe you need to take an Attack option and not actually attack to get the 4 hits stopped, so you can't also Defend to add dice to enemy to-hit rolls.)

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Or 4) Fix how shields are presented in TFT (proper shield use should prevent the hit entirely, not stop a few points of damage).

Yeah. At the point that I'm caring that much about details, I'm probably going to want to switch to house rules that model defenses better, or GURPS (which already does).

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by Skarg

The "on any turn he attacks" wording is pretty unclear though preceding a list where option (c) doesn't involve any attacks.

It seems to me like it's also not well-defined whether you even Defend and pick option (c)? (i.e. Maybe not - maybe you need to take an Attack option and not actually attack to get the 4 hits stopped, so you can't also Defend to add dice to enemy to-hit rolls.)

Parrying with both weapons already adds one die to the to-hit roll, so reading it the way I suggested makes Parry something like Defend plus 4 armor (but not stacking with Fencer's additional die for Defend).

I originally read "parrying both weapons" as defend, but it ends up ridiculously powerful for Fencer. Attacker rolls five dice to hit and four hits are stopped. Instead, I think the fencer chooses between four dice and four bits of armor or five dice.

But I may be convinced I'm wrong.