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Old 10-17-2020, 08:48 AM   #1
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

I found, online, in Shadowjack's House Rules, a new advantage called "Place of Power," which gives a character control of a place with +1 to RPM rolls per 1 CP, to a maximum of +5.

I don't understand RPM well enough to make a comparison. Would +5 to RPM rolls be the equivalent of raising the mana level in standard magic by a level, i.e. from low mana to normal mana or from normal to high?

How would you create an advantage that gives a mage using standard magic a "Sanctum Sanctorum" or a 177a Bleecker Street? In particular, if you say that the real world is mostly low mana with lots of no mana locations and very rare normal mana locations, how would you give a PC access to a location with normal mana, high mana, or very high mana as Signature Gear? or as an HQ?

And now as I type this, I realize the HQ rules in Supers may have something about this. I have read those rules a few times, but I remember thinking on the occasions I've looked at them that they seemed somewhat unclear; I'll take another look and see if what I'm after is there.

Anyway, are there already rules about this somewhere that I've missed? Thanks for the help, y'all!
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:03 PM   #2
bocephus
 
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Default Re: How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

**Had to edit this a couple times after I really checks the RAW.**

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
I found, online, in Shadowjack's House Rules, a new advantage called "Place of Power," which gives a character control of a place with +1 to RPM rolls per 1 CP, to a maximum of +5.

I don't understand RPM well enough to make a comparison. Would +5 to RPM rolls be the equivalent of raising the mana level in standard magic by a level, i.e. from low mana to normal mana or from normal to high?
I know just enough about RPM to say, No, this is not the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
How would you create an advantage that gives a mage using standard magic a "Sanctum Sanctorum" or a 177a Bleecker Street? In particular, if you say that the real world is mostly low mana with lots of no mana locations and very rare normal mana locations, how would you give a PC access to a location with normal mana, high mana, or very high mana as Signature Gear? or as an HQ?
According to Magic 4e:
There are 2 separate effects.
1. How it affects peoples ability to cast a spell: High magic - Anyone (presumably even intelligent animals) can cast a spell if they "know" it. Normal - requires Magery advantage (or something similar) to be able to cast spells. Low magic - requires Magery AND all spells perform at -5 to skill.
2. How it affects items: Recharge rates of manastones will vary, and some magic items may not function (an Items power MUST be 15 to function, and the -5 of a Low Magic area applies to that power number).

A couple questions.
Are you the GM or a player (it matters)?
Is the world setting no/low magic by design, random setting, or even predictable?

In order to have this you have to decide what the value is in the given setting. If the world is low mana having a "normal mana" environment could be quite an advantage if magic is competitive and this is the exception. If theres not really much advantage IE all professional magic users have one, then call it a 1CP signature location (really it might be a disadvantage if this is the only place your magic is "normal") and be done.

Can it be moved? that changes things, does it have to be maintained or improved consistently, does it lose its power if someone does something to it? Is it accessible to anyone (can I charge my mana stones there at a higher rate)? Is it limited to only magic you produce?

Another potential issue... if its the place, like built on the ruins of Stonehenge 2.0, and its just an environmental quirk (I dont get this from the spirit of your question but it could be a factor depending how the world is built). Then its about controlling the location. Its like your wifi :) if you have enough bandwidth and dont care, the whole building can use it. If your trying to stop everyone else from using it then maybe others are motivated to compete for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
And now as I type this, I realize the HQ rules in Supers may have something about this. I have read those rules a few times, but I remember thinking on the occasions I've looked at them that they seemed somewhat unclear; I'll take another look and see if what I'm after is there.

Anyway, are there already rules about this somewhere that I've missed? Thanks for the help, y'all!
Dont know anything about Supers... sorry. Im just going by the Basic set for different background mana levels.

In an adventuring campaign this would be a really limited advantage if it just applies to the expenditure of your personal mana supply/restoring your internal battery. Unless you intend to get into crafting your own equipment, which will cost you a fair chunk of CP for skills/spells prerequisite, Im not sure I see how this is a huge advantage.

Last edited by bocephus; 10-17-2020 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 10-17-2020, 01:25 PM   #3
johndallman
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Default Re: How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
I found, online, in Shadowjack's House Rules, a new advantage called "Place of Power," which gives a character control of a place with +1 to RPM rolls per 1 CP, to a maximum of +5.
This is way, too cheap. It's hard to price it exactly, but something like 25/level would be a lot closer, working from the Mana Enhancer advantage.
Quote:
I don't understand RPM well enough to make a comparison. Would +5 to RPM rolls be the equivalent of raising the mana level in standard magic by a level, i.e. from low mana to normal mana or from normal to high?
It's more complicated than that. The rules for conversion are on p. 43 of Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, under "Mana Levels."
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Old 10-17-2020, 01:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
This is way, too cheap. It's hard to price it exactly, but something like 25/level would be a lot closer, working from the Mana Enhancer advantage.
I don't know. In RPM, Magery is made up of the ability to get +1 to skill [1] and 3 levels of Energy Reserve [9]. So take the first ability and add one level of a skill [+4] and that's 5 points. For only working in a single place, -80% seems reasonable as long as that place is small.
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Old 10-17-2020, 03:40 PM   #5
johndallman
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Default Re: How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
I don't know. In RPM, Magery is made up of the ability to get +1 to skill [1] and 3 levels of Energy Reserve [9]. So take the first ability and add one level of a skill [+4] and that's 5 points. For only working in a single place, -80% seems reasonable as long as that place is small.
One level of a path skill is worth [4]. This gives you one level in all of the nine path skills. It has a major effect because you have to roll the applicable skill many times to gather energy, and your effective skill drops by 1 after each three gathering rolls. Failures give quirks, critical failures cause sizeable backfires.

Further, working in one place is much less of a handicap in RPM than in basic magic. Most difficult workings are done ahead of time by enchanting charms, and having to go to a specific place for that is not a big deal. A place of power also stacks with a good workspace kit, for even more energy-gathering.
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Old 10-17-2020, 05:29 PM   #6
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
I found, online, in Shadowjack's House Rules, a new advantage called "Place of Power," which gives a character control of a place with +1 to RPM rolls per 1 CP, to a maximum of +5.

I don't understand RPM well enough to make a comparison. Would +5 to RPM rolls be the equivalent of raising the mana level in standard magic by a level, i.e. from low mana to normal mana or from normal to high?

How would you create an advantage that gives a mage using standard magic a "Sanctum Sanctorum" or a 177a Bleecker Street? In particular, if you say that the real world is mostly low mana with lots of no mana locations and very rare normal mana locations, how would you give a PC access to a location with normal mana, high mana, or very high mana as Signature Gear? or as an HQ?

And now as I type this, I realize the HQ rules in Supers may have something about this. I have read those rules a few times, but I remember thinking on the occasions I've looked at them that they seemed somewhat unclear; I'll take another look and see if what I'm after is there.

Anyway, are there already rules about this somewhere that I've missed? Thanks for the help, y'all!
Place of Power is canonically a variation of Mana Enhancer. See Pyramid #3/66: The Laws of Magic, p. 11.

Optional rules for having a HQ can be found in Pyramid #3/86: Organizations, p. 4. Power Pool/Enhancer is something you can buy for your HQ on p. 11
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Old 10-17-2020, 06:44 PM   #7
JulianLW
 
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Default Re: How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

Thanks for the input, y'all. I'm trying to design three different (so far) settings for a secret magic TL8 world: a magician's library and an alchemical lab, both in houses in university towns, and a cave on an island in the Arctic Ocean (inaccessible to anything but an amphibious creature or extremely well-equipped divers) that has been a dragon's mana hoard for nearly 2000 years (the dragon is powerful enough to teleport there with ease and, because of the hoard, will probably never run out of energy for spells if encountered there).

All these places exist in a "realistic" modern-day setting with Starbucks and iPhones (all three of these casters will use the standard system) where Earth is (following the guidance of GURPS 3e for "our" Earth) low mana with frequent no mana spots and very rare normal mana spots. Real magic is extremely rare.

I want all three locations to be normal or higher mana, and I'd like to come up with an advantage that reflects a localized increase in the mana level. This could be useful for enchantment but is more likely, given standard magic, to be a "home ground" advantage. Visitors and invaders, however, will have access to the same increased mana, which may lead to the locations being contested. The leveled "Sanctum" perk in Thaumatology: Magical Styles gives a +1 bonus to Contests and spells cast on the structure for 1 CP per level. Shadowjack's "Place of Power" costs the same for RPM - though the bonuses are not commensurate, I guess? - but doesn't give the owner of the "Place" an advantage over visitors or invaders. I want a trait that gives the character access to an increase in mana of 1 to 3 levels - from Low to Normal, High, or Very High, but only in one place, and applying to anyone in that place, whether welcome or unwelcome.

Is there any way to price this without doing a lot of HQ building? The cave, for example, is free in terms of cost, and wouldn't be even a Status -2 dwelling. I like Shadowjack's simple 1/level cost, but I'm not sure if that applies here. A +5 place of power would be comparable to Very High Mana according to Thaumatology RPM.

Actually, maybe that cost is fair: I know about a special place anybody could potentially use.... Like an Unusual Background? For 5 CP. Thoughts?
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:23 PM   #8
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

If anyone can use it it's just a use of Hidden Lore (Sacred Places). If it's *Private* and you're the only one that knows about it/it's protected it would be a UB - probably at 10 per +1 bonus it grants.
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Old 10-18-2020, 01:04 AM   #9
Plane
 
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Default Re: How to create a High Mana "Place of Power" HQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
Would +5 to RPM rolls be the equivalent of raising the mana level in standard magic by a level, i.e. from low mana to normal mana or from normal to high?
That's the EFFECT of raising it per Thaumatology's Continuous Mana rules.

If this costs 5 points instead of the usual 50, you'd need to have -90% or more limitations to justify it.

Breaking that into +1 levels is just using the ⅕ option which is 10/level base cost.

One place I would start is by taking Environmental: Mana -10% : this would prevent you from raising No Mana higher. You'd need SOME mana to start with.

This is how Magical Styles 27's "Mana Compensation" perk works. Offsetting a -1 penalty is basically +1, but that +1 doesn't help in No Mana.

This only sets precedent for a perk making this possible for an entire "style" which is roughly "One College". This is what "Aspected Mana Enhancer" does.

Quote:
"cheaper than the 10 points per +1 for partial Mana Enhancer (Thaumatology, p. 60) for two reasons.
First, it’s of no benefit if there’s no mana.
Second, it doesn’t give a net bonus in normal or better mana.
IMO it's actually 3, they forgot the 'effectively one college' limitation due to the perk requiring specialization by style.

One College is only -40% so Environmental -10% only brings it down to -50%.

"Doesn't give a net bonus" is a limitation I guess must be worth -40 or more (usually you need to go well beyond -90 to get an effective -90% per PU8 "beyond the limit" .. seen in Psionic Powers perks) but I'm not sure how much.

Maybe this is technically legal by using the 1/2 price formula for "Potential Advantages"? That gives you "works half the time" and ignores standard -80% caps, so you could do that to reduce a 10-point ability that's 2 due to -80% down to just a perk. But that would mean still needing to find -30% to justify it.

In shadowjack's case is it possible "rituals only" is worth more points than "one college only" ?

"Ceremonial Only" isn't exactly worth that much more...

Any other limitations we can float from Magery to Mana Enhancer? Maybe throw some "Preparation Required" in there? No big loss since you're spending lots of time on rituals anyway.

Prep required on Mana Enhancer is sort of like free switchable though so that might be munchkin.

Last edited by Plane; 10-18-2020 at 01:07 AM.
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