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Old 09-07-2020, 06:32 PM   #11
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
As hcobb points out, the current errata says the there's a -1 DX. I haven't seen SJ's posts to the contrary.

I laid out my current understanding of the rules in my previous post. Anyone see anything wrong with them? (I asked Lars originally since I was replying to him, but I'd take answers from anyone. He has no particular obligation to answer.)
Yikes, there really are a lot of versions of this floating around! I had forgotten about the errata, and just a couple of weeks ago the hive mind revisited the question and landed on the 'no DX penalty' interpretation (as on the cards). I'll have to look back at the errata.
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Old 09-07-2020, 07:03 PM   #12
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
After all, I don't think a Main Gauche would be more effective than parrying with a full-sized sword in the left hand.
Better leverage and not getting in the way of your sword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI-zSSoiWvk
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Old 09-08-2020, 03:41 PM   #13
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

Hi Phiwum,
I asked the exact same question and this is the summary I put together of the answers:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168333
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Old 09-08-2020, 04:50 PM   #14
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Hi Phiwum,
I asked the exact same question and this is the summary I put together of the answers:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168333
Thanks, Axly.

There's one niggling point that no one has commented on and which I was reminded as I read your thread. Anyone can attack with two weapons if one of the weapons is a spike shield. That part of the Two-Weapon skills description seems to suggest that a fella with a spike shield can attack with his weapon AND do shield rush (at -4 DX) every turn (though curiously an unspiked shield bearer cannot).

I'm gonna chalk that comment about spike shield up to an error in the rules. It would make no sense to draw a distinction between spike and normal and it seems crazy to me to two-weapon a shield rush.
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:19 PM   #15
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Better leverage and not getting in the way of your sword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI-zSSoiWvk
This is a good video, but I don't think it says what you wrote, nor do I think it argues for main gauche being better than a second sword to parry with, at all.

Instead, it says things like:

* "What's interesting is, I don't know of any sources, be they fencing treatises or descriptive accounts, really, of the sword and the dagger being used together before the 16th Century."

* A dagger may be better than a buckler (which is much smaller than a TFT Small Shield BTW, and basically doesn't exist in TFT) at parrying thrusts, because it has a cross-guard while most bucklers don't have much to trap a thrust so it doesn't slide around the tiny buckler. But they say the buckler's better at dealing with cuts.

* In fact, even scholagladiatoria (the rapier/main-gauche fan of the two speakers) says he would prefer sword & buckler every time on a battlefield, because the rapier and main gauche he says is not good at dealing with a two-handed axe or a spear, or a sword and shield (i.e. a TFT shield, not a buckler), and is "rubbish" for fighting in groups.

* Main gauche is largely a civilian gentleman's fencing tool chosen largely for social reasons of 16th Century fashion and seeming less thug-like than other options.

* Non-fencing sword and shield have been in use from ancient times through the 20th Century.


As for the point you were supposedly responding to, a full sword has just as much leverage as a main gauche, if not more, AND it also has a full blade available for defense as well.

I see no reason to give a main gauche MORE defensive ability than a full sword in the left hand used with Two Weapons talent.

Having watched the video, I think I'd tend to say a Fencer with main gauche may only warrant 1 point protection... maybe just waive the usual -1 DX penalty for stopping damage with the main gauche. Maybe stop 2 points versus other fencing weapons only. Well, and probably only against a single opponent.
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:58 PM   #16
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

More on the advantage of the parrying dagger, but as noted in TFT the small shield is much better against two handed or missile weapons.

"This dagger can go anywhere without any problems"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc8a...d0-XCIlGGSiPS9
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:17 PM   #17
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

Why would we not consider a buckler to be a form of small shield? Most historical medieval bucklers were on the order of 1' in diameter, and solidly constructed.
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:39 PM   #18
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Why would we not consider a buckler to be a form of small shield? Most historical medieval bucklers were on the order of 1' in diameter, and solidly constructed.
A buckler would be 2 to 5 pounds, not 10 pounds.
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:58 PM   #19
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

I don't think that is meaningfull;the weights listed for gear are clearly notional suggestions rather than based on rigorous research (as is generally the case for roleplaying games!).
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Old 09-10-2020, 02:15 PM   #20
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Questions about fencing and two-weapons skills

They seem meaningfully different to me. A proper shield is notably larger than a buckler. A large shield is notably larger than a small shield. A tower shield is even more monumental.

See for example this:
https://www.iconspng.com/images/medi...al-shields.jpg

A buckler is like just the central boss on the round shields shown on the top row there.

TFT has a bit of grain problem, especially if a full shield is rated 1, a tower shield is rated 3, and later rules want to add 1 or 2 points for talents. The result is some people here arguing that a 0.5 lb Main Gauche might stop 3 hits per attack, the same as a 35 lb Tower Shield (but without the -2 DX penalty).
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