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Old 12-13-2015, 11:59 AM   #741
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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Originally Posted by Owen Smith View Post
Which matches what I said earlier. Large chunks of the company are focussed on Munchkin and similar products, and GURPS isn't getting a fair share of their time. So it's hardly a surprise GURPS is struggling to be successful.
I play but am not obsessed with Munchkin. Munchkin Treasure Hunt, on the other hand, was my (then) 5yo's gateway drug to basic game tactics and math-on-the-fly. Just to state that I'm not a Munchkin fanboy.

But think about where GURPS is in required investment for support. It requires lots, and also ongoing rules and game continuity checks, where a card game like Munchkin is basically the AMRAAM of games: lock on to a concept, turn the team loose, fire it off, and let it find its target. GURPS is the Sparrow (AIM7), which requires constant guidance from the launch platform.

Munchkin is hugely profitable and all the long-tail stuff comes with no effort. GURPS is not and requires the constant effort of no fewer than three full-time staff. Fully burdened, I suspect that comes to $200,000 per year.

That meas you're right - GURPS doesn't get its fair share of resources. It gets far more than it's share of resources given the return.

I love GURPS, write for it, and am playing in one campaign, about to start as a PC in another, and have my own campaign on hiatus. But I have no illusions that the reason that SJG keeps it is because they love it, not because it makes great business sense to do so, with a reasonable dose of "this was my major contribution to RPG-dom, and I'm not likely going to spin it off and have some uncautious punk ruin my legacy" from SJ, though that may or may not be accurate - I'm imputing perhaps improper motives to someone not-me. That's always dangerous.

But really, a dispassionate businessman would either shut it down or spin it off, whereupon the most probably outcome is that the new management runs it into the ground or at least fails to make any appreciable change in the trajectory. Because that's what happens about 95% of the time - sometimes past performance IS an indication of future results, and while the race may not always go to the swift, or the battle to the strong, wise investors place their money on the strong or swift.

Perhaps long-winded, but my take-away from interviewing SJ and conversations on the record with the SJG staff charged with GURPS is that they keep it because it's important to them to do so, but the opportunity costs of "more GURPS" are too high to increase the relative subsidy it already gets.

The one thing I do infer from Phil's statements is that they're taking the Patreon/Kickstarter (or something of that ilk) option very seriously. They may not pull the trigger on it, but since he's mentioned it two or three times, and he's the CEO, that means mindshare is high. CEOs, by and large in my not-inconsiderable experience with them, don't drop off statements that can be redirected to press agencies lightly.
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Old 12-13-2015, 12:20 PM   #742
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

Hasbro owns G.I. Joe and Transformers, two significant properties that have had decades of support and sales. Hasbro licenses Star Wars and have held the license (if we include the time Kenner was a separate company) for almost four decades (minus a window of time in the early nineties when Hasbro let the Kenner license expire).

In Hasbro's 2014 annual report (http://investor.hasbro.com/annuals.cfm) those three brands are mentioned:

* G.I. Joe - 5 times
* Transformers - 46 times
* Star Wars - 30 times

Transformers saw a new film in 2014 and continues to be one of Hasbro's top seven brands. It's clear why the property received as many mentions in the report as it did.

Why would Hasbro put more resources into Star Wars -- a brand they license -- instead of one of their own (G.I. Joe) properties? Because consumer demand and product sales told Hasbro Star Wars deserved more attention than G.I. Joe. A lower level of support and presence for G.I. Joe does not mean that Hasbro has neglected or abandoned G.I. Joe. What this means is that they're giving G.I. Joe reduced attention until they determine their next major initiative for the brand.

And if we look at the three brands through Google Trends then Hasbro's actions are reinforced and make even more sense: http://www.google.com/trends/explore...%2B6&content=1 #googletrendsexplore
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Old 12-13-2015, 12:23 PM   #743
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
. . . my take-away from interviewing SJ and conversations on the record with the SJG staff charged with GURPS is that they keep it because it's important to them to do so, but the opportunity costs of "more GURPS" are too high to increase the relative subsidy it already gets.
Absolutely. Steve believes in supporting GURPS and that's exactly what we're continuing to do. We'll take whatever action we see fit to protect GURPS and continue support as long as possible. Sometimes that means delaying a project or two so that we can strengthen their chances at success.
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Old 12-13-2015, 02:58 PM   #744
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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That meas you're right - GURPS doesn't get its fair share of resources. It gets far more than it's share of resources given the return.
Truth in this.
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Old 12-13-2015, 04:15 PM   #745
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

"Fair share" is a dubious concept here, either way, but if it means anything, one might note that, from what's been said in these threads, (a) GURPS products are expected to make sufficient profits to contribute significantly to covering the company's overheads, and (b) SJGames appears to have proportionately higher overheads than smaller companies which focus solely on RPGs.

So, "fairness" or not, GURPS has apparently paid for a bit of the company's infrastructure, and one could reasonably hope that that infrastructure could provide relatively hefty support.
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Old 12-13-2015, 04:27 PM   #746
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
"Fair share" is a dubious concept here, either way, but if it means anything, one might note that, from what's been said in these threads, (a) GURPS products are expected to make sufficient profits to contribute significantly to covering the company's overheads, and (b) SJGames appears to have proportionately higher overheads than smaller companies which focus solely on RPGs.

So, "fairness" or not, GURPS has apparently paid for a bit of the company's infrastructure, and one could reasonably hope that that infrastructure could provide relatively hefty support.
I might quibble on "significantly," as what i took away was "contribute."

I would be very surprised - though I'm in basically no position to know - to hear that GURPS did more than basically break even, maybe plus a few percent. If that. Last time I did the math, the sales of all published e23 items (before that disappeared) over a several year period added up to a very low number. But I was working from what was definitely vastly incomplete data, so I can only say I walked away fervently hoping that my conclusion was vastly wrong.
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:04 PM   #747
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

I am convinced of one thing after reading these posts, SJ Games are as committed to an under preforming brand as ANY company could be. I'd dare say more so. Fortunately while Gurps is in "the ER" it doesn't seem to be flat lining yet. If Diskworld and Mars Attacks comes out and fails, Phil is totally correct in that SJ buyers are going to be hard pressed to buy into the next big Gurps release. Gurps is (and probably has been) at a critical junction in it's life. I'm glad this report came out and we we're let in on the secret that most of us knew in the pit of out stomach for the last few years. On the lighter side, I hope Car Wars pans out for you guys as you've been working on it for a while now.
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:57 PM   #748
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

I have seen several comments about successful Kickstarter projects leading to "stacks of Hardbacks" at various Conventions. Does anyone know how many of these projects actually make money by the time they are done?
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Old 12-13-2015, 10:35 PM   #749
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I might quibble on "significantly," as what i took away was "contribute."

I would be very surprised - though I'm in basically no position to know - to hear that GURPS did more than basically break even, maybe plus a few percent. If that. Last time I did the math, the sales of all published e23 items (before that disappeared) over a several year period added up to a very low number. But I was working from what was definitely vastly incomplete data, so I can only say I walked away fervently hoping that my conclusion was vastly wrong.
Once Munchkin came online, no doubt GURPS lost its share in overall % contribution. Though it likely was one of the major contributors in the beginning. SJG seemed to me to always be diversified though.
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Old 12-13-2015, 10:41 PM   #750
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Default Re: Report To The Stakeholders

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Originally Posted by adm View Post
I have seen several comments about successful Kickstarter projects leading to "stacks of Hardbacks" at various Conventions. Does anyone know how many of these projects actually make money by the time they are done?
Um if they are funded then most of them?
You really think Pelgrane Press, Atlas games etc don't know how to run a budget?
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