Report To The Stakeholders

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I just requested the dead-tree as a Christmas present. I doubt I would have bought it myself (probably would have just printed the pdf). Unfortunately we seem to be indicating that it is a mistake to release the pdf first, a practice I'd rather not convince them to stop.

I plan to buy the dead tree version (I prefer them), but lack the money at the moment. The good news is that by the time my finances recover, some of the errata may have been taken care of. :)

Not mentioned in the report, but gratifying nonetheless, is how SJG has been treating its minor lines. While In Nomine isn't even close to a priority, for example, it has still received some small attention -- two re-releases and a new release on e23 in 2009, and a much-awaited e23 re-release in 2010. Believe me, guys, I'm grateful.

And while GURPS has been officially de-prioritized for a couple of reports now, it's still getting an awful lot of regular releases. That counts more for me. Especially since one of those releases will soon be GURPS Horror!

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by RevBob

Who's to say it's NOT vampire factions at work?

The only muckin set i own is Munckin Bites ;)

[Mailanka]

Well, I'd opine that Low-Tech's sales were hurt by the PDF sales to forumites.

But not Thaumatology or Vorkosigan Saga? They've released PDFs before the print before, and it hasn't bitten into sales like this.

Personally, I think we're seeing the GURPS community transitioning more and more into a PDF mode. A few years ago, I suspect many more of us were skeptical of this whole PDF thing, but since then, 90% of our GURPS goodness has been found in PDF, and we've either adapted or moved on. So, I suspect the PDFs are actually starting to dwarf the sales of print products not because the PDF came out first, but because we, as a community, are more accustomed to PDF than we used to be.

It'd be an interesting experiment to put out the printed book first and then see if the PDF still dwarfs its sales. And by "interesting" I mean "Please don't do that," because I want GURPS Horror ASAP.

(For what it's worth, I haven't picked up my Low-Tech PDF yet, but I already have a hard copy of the book)

[Palmer]

Originally Posted by Lord Fitz

While I would love a hardback Low-Tech, it just isn't a priority since I bought a PDF early on. I am still hoping for an eventual release of hardbacks with a CD of the PDF or a way to purchase both for a discount.

I'm pretty sure there was a discussion about this at some point, and the verdict was "We have no plans to do this"

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

*Is it just me or does the ostensible theme of Ticket to Ride have absolutely no relation to the actual game play, since you don't actually have to make connecting routes?

Theme and Eurogames have a rocky relationship at best.
Most Euros are designed around a mechanic first, and then a thin veneer of a theme is tacked on.
Lost Cities is a great example. The theme is all about putting together archaeological expeditions to explore lost cities for artifacts and glory.
The game itself? "Play cards in numerical order".

Another noteworthy one is Scepter of Zavandor. Young wizards have uncovered ancient magical secrets, and are now questing across the land to build knowledge, gain power, acquire magical gems, and eventually become The Archmage.
It is a reskin of an older game called Outpost, which is about building factories. In space.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Well, I'd opine that Low-Tech's sales were hurt by the PDF sales to forumites.

No. Even if you were to add the PDF sales numbers to the print sales numbers directly, the number of units sold would still be lower than expected. There's definitely no issue with PDF cannibalizing print, here.

There also appears to be some confusion out there, amongst people who aren't regular forumites, about what is the Low-Tech PDF vs Low-Tech companions vs the hardcover book, as well as some confusion as to why the supplements are not part of the book.

Not really. If you picture a Venn diagram of "People who keep up on e23 releases and shop there regularly" and "People who don't visit our forums," there isn't much overlap there. Plus, there hasn't really been any confusion regarding the companions; a few people complained about them being split up, but that's a separate issue.

Quite frankly, the real issue was that the average FLGS simply didn't perceive a need for this product on their shelves. So if anyone reading this is upset that your FLGS doesn't have any Low-Tech on the shelves, please let them (not us) know that you're unhappy about that.

Originally Posted by Lord Fitz

I am still hoping for an eventual release of hardbacks with a CD of the PDF or a way to purchase both for a discount.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a simple way to do that that isn't fraught with issues. The cost and effort required to bundle a physical CD with a book is not a minor factor -- it's the kind of thing that would raise the price of said book, even if we weren't charging for the extra PDF content. And "included download codes" have been tried and simply don't work unless the FLGS keeps all of their books under locked glass. About the only way we could do it is if you ordered both at the same time through W23 and e23, but that'd be a real middle finger to the FLGS out there -- which is something we don't want to do.

[kjamma4]

After scanning through and seeing no mention of Car Wars, the only thing that caught my eye was the fact that SJ continues to say a dice game was sent to the printers.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

No. Even if you were to add the PDF sales numbers to the print sales numbers directly, the number of units sold would still be lower than expected. There's definitely no issue with PDF cannibalizing print, here.

I take you mean there's other more significant issues...

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Quite frankly, the real issue was that the average FLGS simply didn't perceive a need for this product on their shelves. So if anyone reading this is upset that your FLGS doesn't have any Low-Tech on the shelves, please let them (not us) know that you're unhappy about that.

Not just the FLGSs, but when I did decide to pick up the Low-Tech Hardback I went looking for it online and other than W23 and Amazon I couldn't find it out there at all. No one is selling it.

Couldn't order it from B&N or Borders either, since the latter is going out of business it's not surprising, but if you go on Barnes&Noble.com you still can't order it from them, even today. No images, no info and not updated.
You get:
"A new copy is not available from Barnes & Noble.com at this time."

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Of course you don't see the same value in a hardcopy that many others do. I'm not sure which attitude is more widespread.

According to the stakeholders report, sales for the Low-Tech hardback were very disappointing, but the PDF sales were good.
Therefore, I'd say that my attitude appears to be more widespread.

I'm not certain if it's placement in the report is all that relevant. Certainly GURPS support is doing as well or better than I think most of us hoped. I know that personally the amount of GURPS stuff out there currently exceeds both my finances and my available free time.

Well, I hope so. All "major", well-established RPGs publish far more than a single human could play.
If GURPS published so few books that I could actually buy, read and use all of them, GURPS would be dead (assuming, of course, that GURPS is not the only thing I do in life ^^)

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

No. Even if you were to add the PDF sales numbers to the print sales numbers directly, the number of units sold would still be lower than expected. There's definitely no issue with PDF cannibalizing print, here.

Mmh... according to e23: What's Hot, GURPS Low Tech and its companions are the best-selling products in the last few months.

You say that even adding up those good PDF sales to print sales, the total sales were lower than expected for the print sales alone.

I guess that means that pdfs still sells far fewer units than printed books? E.g., that they are just a small part of sales (per each book), and that to make them relevant you need to publish many more different books than before?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

And while GURPS has been officially de-prioritized for a couple of reports now, it's still getting an awful lot of regular releases. That counts more for me. Especially since one of those releases will soon be GURPS Horror!

*nods* I'm all about the bottom line :) As long as new stuff is still coming out, what do I care about GURPS not getting a mention in the stakeholders report?