TL8 Gadgeteers and TL12 Genetic Engineering

[AlexanderHowl]

So, I was wondering if you would allow a TL8 gadgeteer to create a TL12 genetically engineered superhuman? A 500 point genetically engineered template with radical species modifications would have a base value of $600,000 (making it a Complex 'gadget'). The facility would cost $2.25 million ($250,000 plus $500,000*4) while the cost of the genetically engineered superhuman would be $18 million (meaning that the project would be well within the budget of a TL8 Gadgeteer with Multimillionaire 2). Of course, a TL12 metamorphic virus could cost the gadgeteer only $12 million to produce (plus $2.25 million in facility costs), but the recipient of the metamorphic virus might not be as loyal as someone that the gadgeteer raise from infancy, and the gadgeteer would need to invent the template in the first place anyway.

Biological gadgeteers could actually be an interesting source of 'realistic' superheroes. If they created TL12 metamorphic viruses, they could potentially infect humans with any biomod and/or racial template that they had already invented. Imagine the chaos that could occur if they produce a plague version of a TL12 metamorphic virus in an attempt to cause a biological singularity or to uplift an entire species of animals?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, I was wondering if you would allow a TL8 gadgeteer to create a TL12 genetically engineered superhuman?

Well, according to the gadgeteering rules on B475, he's at -20 to skill rolls for going up 4 TLs.

I'd tend to say "No" even if he could cope with that, because I have some clue about how invention is done in the real world (I have a couple of patents) and there are limits to the degree of outright ignorance of basic principles (as measured by 4 TLs of difference) that I can suspend disbelief over.

[TGLS]

Also would take a very long time to mature and test (Early maturation has no point cost, but probably should for invention rules). Failures would be extremely costly.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, I was wondering if you would allow a TL8 gadgeteer to create a TL12 genetically engineered superhuman? A 500 point genetically engineered template with radical species modifications would have a base value of $600,000 (making it a Complex 'gadget'). The facility would cost $2.25 million ($250,000 plus $500,000*4) while the cost of the genetically engineered superhuman would be $18 million (meaning that the project would be well within the budget of a TL8 Gadgeteer with Multimillionaire 2). Of course, a TL12 metamorphic virus could cost the gadgeteer only $12 million to produce (plus $2.25 million in facility costs), but the recipient of the metamorphic virus might not be as loyal as someone that the gadgeteer raise from infancy, and the gadgeteer would need to invent the template in the first place anyway.

Biological gadgeteers could actually be an interesting source of 'realistic' superheroes. If they created TL12 metamorphic viruses, they could potentially infect humans with any biomod and/or racial template that they had already invented. Imagine the chaos that could occur if they produce a plague version of a TL12 metamorphic virus in an attempt to cause a biological singularity or to uplift an entire species of animals?

If this is a cinematic or fantasy setting, go for it. Otherwise it would be impossible.

I allow up to a maximum TL+2 inventions to be made by characters with five levels (minimum three or otherwise it would be impossible) of appropriate Talent, maximum skill and a large research team of about 150 people (requiring Administration and optional Charisma) unless they are willing to take a lot of extra time.

On the previous conditions it would take over five years to come up with a working design and a lot of failed and costly prototypes (for TL+2). For TL 12 at TL 8 I do not even know where your price comes from, because 500 points should cost 5 billions (now take into account the failed attempts if it were just TL+2 and your average budget will be well over 38 billions just on materials used in the working prototype) without accounting for salaries and facilities.

If you got a lot of time and are willing to stretch things out you might be able to do an specific field research at TL 12 in about twenty three years.

What do you want to engineer exactly? We might be able to find something else working as intended in cybernetics or power suit armors.

Pd. I like your idea because that is basically what some NPCs in my world setting are doing, so if you develop it properly let me know and I will add your character to my setting.

[Alonsua]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Also would take a very long time to mature and test (Early maturation has no point cost, but probably should for invention rules). Failures would be extremely costly.

Or not. Did I hear genetic simulation TL9 anywhere?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Alonsua

Or not. Did I hear genetic simulation TL9 anywhere?

Simulation is part of the design process, it doesn't help with the prototype. But I'd require the simulator to match or exceed the TL of the invention you're trying to create...

[AlexanderHowl]

If we are talking gadgeteers, we are probably talking about a cinematic, if not superhero, campaign.

[Flyndaran]

Cinematic is not necessarily silly. And golden age is not silver age is not gritty reboot age.
Every setting has parameters save for hypothetical avant garde surrealist games.

[AlexanderHowl]

A TL8 gadgeteer is capable of achieving skill 30 without that much effort, so a -20 to the conception roll is not that severe of a penalty. What about a TL8 gadgeteer making TL10 racial templates though? The template can still reach 500 points with radical species modification without much difficulty, it is just more of a generalist than a specialist. It would only be -10 to concept rolls, $1.25 million for the facility, and $4.2 million for the prototype (probably a bioroid)

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

What about a TL8 gadgeteer making TL10 racial templates though? The template can still reach 500 points with radical species modification without much difficulty, it is just more of a generalist than a specialist. It would only be -10 to concept rolls, $1.25 million for the facility, and $4.2 million for the prototype (probably a bioroid)

Depends. At skill 30, it's pretty practical, probably getting a success on the first attempt. At skill 25, the gadgeteer can expect to fail at most twice, boosting their prototype costs to a little over $12 million. At skill 20, the gadgeteer can expect at most 30 failures, boosting prototype costs to $126 million. At less than skill 20, forget about it.